Is 10 & 13 too young to travel unaccompanied on a 2.5 hour train journey?

[mymadworld]

My parents want to have our children to stay in the summer holidays and we are trying to work out logistics of getting them there & back. By far the easiest & cheapest option is putting them on a train at London and my parents meeting them the other end (& vice versa for the return) but I'm not sure if they're a bit young to do a big journey on their own. Eldest regularly travels by bus on his own and youngest has walks himself to school/local shops but it's obviously a big jump dispatching them off 200 miles!
Any thoughts?

Nope,far too many things can go wrong. Coach,yes if they're sensible.

Don't understand this at all. Apart from the fact rail is safer than road anyway, both have the potential to go wrong. It's whether or not the DC could manage if things do go wrong.

Don't understand this at all. Apart from the fact rail is safer than road anyway, both have the potential to go wrong. It's whether or not the DC could manage if things do go wrong

I'm sorry you don't understand it.

Jesus wept - suicides, really!

On the trains, there were 337 public fatalities in 2017-18
of which 45 were non-suicide fatalities
and
292 were suicide orsuspected suicide fatalities
(249 on mainline and 43 on London Underground)

On the roads in the same period there were

Fatalaties 1,793
Seriously injured 27,288
Slightly injured 141,912
All casualties 170,993

So, which is safer I wonder?!

I used to visit my Dad in London from Leeds alone from the age of eleven. My DM dropped me on the platform at Leeds and DF met me at the other side at Kings Cross, I was fine.

and I should have said that was out of 1.7 billion rail users in 2017-18.

Yes I would if they were happy to.

I would take them through any potential issues including other passengers - they can be revolting

I'm not talking about what is safer. Would the children be ok on their own on a train if there was a suicide? - sadly very possible.

Would they be ok with a person/people who was drunk/rowdy who started trying to chat to them?

Would they be ok if someone was sitting in their reserved seats and refused to move?- happens a lot ime.

I have a wide circle of friends including family who work for the railway and I don't know anyone who would be happy with their kids doing this.

Group of friends who are 13 going out together? Yes, lots of kids go to school by train. Not a 13 year old in charge of a 10 year old.

I'd allow it but I'd be panicking until I knew they were there safe, I'd be calling them every 30 minutes to check they were ok

I do understand, but stop and imagine the message you would be sending by doing that, you would be communicating your fear and (without meaning to) doubt about their ability to cope. They in turn could internalise that the world is scary and they ought to be afraid and mum doesn't really trust them.

Growing up in the late 70s and 80s parents were more relaxed or plain just benignly neglectful and I feel we ought to do, not exactly the same - the world has changed -but actively take advantage of opportunities to grow and practise developing resilience. The above scenario with the OP is a good, well managed one imo and the children will really grow from it.

Depending on the children, I would do this.

I would trust my eldest with either/both his sisters, although behaviour from all 3 together is more likely to have squabbles.

I would hesitate to send the younger 2 (currently 12 and 8) but only because the 12 year old has absolutely no sense of direction (inherited from her father!).

When I was 8 my sister (12) and I regularly caught a National Express coach Victoria to Huddersfield, and that was in the days before toilets and drinks service on the coach so we had to negotiate two service station loo stops.

Personally it would be a no for me when mine were that age. The actual worry and stress level that I would go through for 2.5 hours would be too much for me....I'd just be beside myself regardless how mature and self confident they were!

Can someone accompanying them be an option? I know that's expensive though and a big ask for doing a 5 hour round trip.

Of course there are drunk people on trains in the morning! People having a "big day out" very often crack open the prosecco/tinnies on the way there. Other things that I've seen/have happened while travelling on trains in the day during the past year: train cancelled altogether because driver didn't turn up (x1), train replaced by bus service (x3), problems further down the line leading to getting off six stations early and being put in taxis (x1), reservation system not working so lots of people couldn't get their seats (x3) arriving over 15 minutes late (xcountless), pissed up bloke wandering down the tracks and effectively closing the station (x1) plus of course the usual Christmas travelling nightmares which I won't count. I'm a little flummoxed at the idea that travelling by public transport in the UK is likely to be hassle free - there are always hassles. I can only assume that the people who think it's a breeze very rarely use the trains.

No mode of transport offers entirely hassle free journeys.

If you walk, you might get a bad shoe rub, blister, be hit by a car, fall over.
If you ride a bike, you might get a puncture, fall off, be hit by a car, get shouted at by arses in their cars.
If you use the bus, it might be late, be cancelled, have nutters on it, get a puncture, to the wrong way.
If you go by car, it might not start, it might get a flat, it might be involved in a RTA minor or major, you might get stuck in horrendous traffic.
If you go by train, it might be delayed, diverted, have nutters on it, be in some way impacted by a suicide.
If you go by plane, it might be delayed, diverted, have drunk people on it, get cancelled, be horribly turbulent, your luggage might get lost.

I'm sure that I've missed out a million scenarios for all the things that could go wrong with any form of transport. HOWEVER, in the main things don't go wrong, they go right and everyone arrives where they should do at roughly the right time. If things go wrong nowadays, you can keep in touch with people through the wonder of mobile phone technology and sensible advice can be given or alternative arrangements made.

I was addressing Bertrand's repeated query as to what might happen. Although it is perhaps worth pointing out that there is a world of difference between transport problems when you are either with your children (in the car) or in the same town as them (when they're on the bus) and when you are a hundred miles away from them.

I can only assume that the people who think it's a breeze very rarely use the trains

I agree.

HOWEVER, in the main things don't go wrong, they go right and everyone arrives where they should do at roughly the right time

I can't believe for one minute anyone who spends any serious time on trains can possible say this.

@theeeaoups- with practically every one of those, the kids ring the person meeting them to tell them rhey’ll be late, then follow the infatuations of the train people. Obviously, if the children don’t feel confident enough then they shouldn’t do it.

The actual worry and stress level that I would go through for 2.5 hours would be too much for me....I'd just be beside myself regardless how mature and self confident they were!

So even if they were mature, you'd prevent them an opportunity to develop confidence travelling alone and resilience because you would be stressed?

I think we need to question how we've become so stressed about letting our children do risky things alone. Maybe its so much negative news stories.

I think it's also that if anything happens (child gets abducted while out walking alone to school or something) society condemns the parents, instead of the situation or persons' responsible. I mean children ought to be safe wherever they are/go and it's not on parents if it isn't.

I used to travel on trains and buses independently from about 9 onwards.
At 13 I went on a plane on my own to Switzerland and just had someone to help me through customs.

I think they would be fine.

Agree MargoLovebutter

I do and I am!

I also believe that even if the young people are on a train that gets diverted or delayed, they will be fine, because they will use their mobile phone to let the adults at either end know what's happening. If they have to sit and wait for another train, they'll be fine too, because they'll be with all the other people having to wait as well and they can use their mobile phone to let the adults at the other end know. They'll be travelling during the day, outside of rush hour in the school holidays on a busy mainline route, which is unlikely to be rammed with grumpy commuters, hung-over drunks or nutters.

Loving the assumptions that phones have signals at every point in the UK, even stuck next to a field on a train in the middle of nowhere, and also that passengers are helpfully kept informed as to what's happening by smiling efficient railway staff who escort them to the replacement bus service that leaves in five minutes three streets away, tell them what time it will arrive and have the capacity to look out for unchaperoned children.

I suppose this thread is optimistic really - a shining example of hope over experience. Well done everyone!

I'd allow my children of similar ages to do it. I'd put them in first though, less people, less likely to have an issue with seats, more attention from staff.

Are they frequent train users? I'd probably do a 20 min journey with them and talk them through beforehand, and then allow them to take the lead as a bit of a 'practice run' - don't tell them that's what it is though!

Train getting delayed or cancelled wouldn't be a problem because whoever's dropping them off would still be there. Drunk people (not just people with drinks) not that common until later in the evening. Train stopping early- follow guard instructions, ring parent. Seat issue- stick together, find guard if possible.

Btw OP, you can never say there won't be a jobsworth type but I've been dropping people including my teen nieces off at Piccadilly for years and they've always let me through to get them settled/ wave off.

^ first class I mean

At 13 I would travel from my mums to my dads via train with my 11 year old sister it was 2.5 hours, my dad would meet us at a train st. By 14 I was travelling the full distance which meant 1/2 changes and 3.5 hours. I was always very 'street smart' though. This was about 11/12 years ago.

^That's one driver and very unusual.

You are much more likely to encounter drunk, rowdy passengers , delays, suicide on a train^

Long distance coaches are absolutely appalling, which is why they cost £20 instead of £50 on the train. Really confusing to get on in London, as five turn up all going a slightly different route, thousands of people milling about to get on, felt like I was going to get my wallet nicked before even I made it to the bus, loads of people on the coach were dodgy-looking types who appear to have crawled out of the woodwork somewhere, really uncomfortable on the coach itself, very little room, it takes fucking hours to leave London, then it stops randomly at weird little shitty places and you watch closely out of the window to make sure someone isn't nicking your bag from the side of the bus, seven revolting hours later you arrive at a bus stop somewhere, and that's hoping you get off at the right place, the driver doesn't ignore you or randomly decide to change the route at short notice. Coach travel, especially the route the OP is contemplating is appalling and an outer circle of hell AFAIC, and no-one does it unless they have no money or they are desperate to get somewhere and the trains are full, and I would certainly not put my children through that experience.

I would, however, have very few worries about them getting on train.