Is 10 & 13 too young to travel unaccompanied on a 2.5 hour train journey?

[mymadworld]

My parents want to have our children to stay in the summer holidays and we are trying to work out logistics of getting them there & back. By far the easiest & cheapest option is putting them on a train at London and my parents meeting them the other end (& vice versa for the return) but I'm not sure if they're a bit young to do a big journey on their own. Eldest regularly travels by bus on his own and youngest has walks himself to school/local shops but it's obviously a big jump dispatching them off 200 miles!
Any thoughts?

Mine could def do that and I def would be ok with it. In fact I would send them on a plane if the same arrangements could be had.

I would discuss contingency plans but honestly, chances of the train falling apart/breaking down are pretty slim. It's london to manchester

I've done the journey loads. It's such a reliable route these days and the trains are very frequent. The worst journey I had was travelling back on Sundays when there were engineering works and it took about 5 hours, but I still sat in my booked seat, it was just annoying, busy and long, and that was about 15 years ago!

needsomesleepy possibly. Sorry about that.

No way would i be putting a 13 and 10 year old on a train to London. Way too young. Way too many variables. Way too risky (and I mean this in Its widest including emotionally for them) - There may be someone the other end but getting off a train in London is disorientating and confusing for many adults let alone a 13 and 10 year old.

But the DC in question live in London
They won't be disorientated - it's home turf. Manchester Piccadilly might be confusing for them but honestly, it should be very possible for them to manage this.

If it's only two hours why can't somebody go with them? Everyone has tea and then the adult catches the next train home?

I wouldn't do it.
Yes nothing could go wrong and they will probably be fine. But I'd never forgive myself if anything went wrong.
Say if one of your dc was 16 the other 13 then that would be fine. It's too much responsibility for a 13 year old to take care of a 10 year old especially if it's the 13 year old first time doing it alone.

I know train tickets are not cheap but couldn't one of the DC grandparents get a return ticket and come down to pick your DC up on the train and take them back up with them to Manchester and do the same for when they come home.
I'd prefer to do this even if I had to pay for the tickets for grandparents to get down. Then you know for sure your DC will be safe.

You know your DC and if you think the are capable of coping if anything did go wrong ,Will they know what to do in an emergency ?,Will they know not wander off from each other on the train, if the trains busy they know what to do if they loose each other (I'm not sure if these trains get really packed ) , and will they definitely stay in there seats till they get to where they are going etc.

I'm sure you will go through all this with them but 2 hours is along time for children unsupervised. I suppose you could ring every 30mins to check on them or if you can't then grandparents can.

No, 13 is actually quite old these days lol. I was on my own for a week at 14 when my mum went in holiday 😂

Too Young.

Two 13 yr olds - yes, but I wouldn't give a responsibility of a 10 yr old to a 13 yr old and the 10 yr old is definitely too young.

Generally I'm on the more 'laid back' side on the "what age would you...." threads. This is too long alone and too many things that could happen that could go wrong.

I'm a Londoner with a 10yo and I would do it. Put them on train (no barriers at Euston), ensure they have phone to use at other end, know where to meet gran, where to go if she's late, to move away from anyone dodgy and wander to the buffet car, etc. Compared to walking home from school, trains are remarkably civilised. Yes, there may be delays. In which case you get bored.

Given how uncomplicated the journey is, if you are close to letting them, the big things I'd worry about/ pre-empt would be a fight or something breaking out on the train, or a stranger kind of annoying them ( both which happen quite regularly on our trains)

Op can you do the journey with them the first time? Even for a flying visit before they go to stay for longer?

My kids have done a similar journey a few times over the last year at 11/14. A direct train, only 5 stops (fewer than it takes to our nearest city). Train tracking app on my phone, written instructions in both bags, reserved table seating. BIG conversation about what to do if there's a problem (main point being that if anything did go wrong to stay together and I would drive to get them).

And to look after each other - as the eldest sibling myself I have always tried to ensure they both are happy with the arrangements and could deal with something going wrong. You know your own kids OP. It'll be an amazing adventure!

Mine have a similar age gap and did lots of things together. I never told the the older one to look after the younger-I said “Look after each other”

Yes I am sure they would be fine, only on Mumsnet do people consider 13 year old to be ‘very young’ but then just a few years later they are assumed to be ‘practically adults’ and given full independence (but still supported financially)

Depends on the kids really. I’d have probably been ok (was always a little old lady in child form). My nephew who’s about to turn 11, perhaps not... he’s an intelligent child but does spend most of his life in a dream and would quite possibly end up in the Outer Hebrides. Or France. Or somewhere equally unlikely.

But sensible kids who are happy to do it, in first class, staff aware, dropped off at one end and picked up at the other... fine. It will be an adventure!

I’d do it, but as others say first class and I would ring Virgin and ask that train staff aware they are travelling unaccompanied. I imagine they may do special assistance for this situation.

I’d also put them on a train that terminated at Manchester so there’s no risk of them not getting off.

I’m curious about this “anything” that might happen to two sensible children in the daytime being put on a train, travelling for 2 hours and getting off at the terminus to be met at the ticket barrier.

And first class - why?????? Apart from anything else, they’re more likely to be on their own in the first class bit.

I think the thing to be aware of is you may not have time to settle them on to the train before it sets off. It depends how early the train gets into the platform. You should be able to get onto the platform though if you chat to the ticket barrier staff.

From 12 I regularly got a bus from Birmingham to Holyhead then ferry to Dublin and either taxi or public bus to school. If they are happy don’t see the issue especially as it’s one train.

I personally wouldn't at that age having done the London to York 2.5 train quite often when working. However if you want to, the only way I would allow it is first class tickets (because they have a member of staff on that carriage the whole time), or the buffet cart for the same reason but I would pick 1st over restaurant cart.

@BertrandRussell me too. All this stranger danger is bollocks far more at risk with their family then out and about.

How much 'settling' onto a train do they need? See them through the door, wave as they find their seats. If it looks like there's a problem, you could alert platform staff, but certainly roll on 2-3 years and I hope to be doing this!

Actually ds at 11 would be fine except for looking very young so he would get lots of well-meaning people asking if he was OK, and he might go off on one.

Yes of course. Children travel across the world perfectly safely and happily. Mine went to Switzerland on their own from twelve. It’s good for children to become confident at travelling without an adult.

Why would you need to settle them on a train? They get on, put luggage away and sit down. They don’t need any fussing except a hug on platform and wave goodbye.

What is about to happen on a busy train in daylight hours? They might get a look from someone if they’re being loud or might be offered a sweet by a nice middle aged woman? They might panic they can’t find their ticket for a minute and then find it? They might think the lavatory is a bit grim? They might spill their lemonade?

It’s really not high risk and to suggest otherwise does our future generations a disservice by breeding neuroticism.

I'm sure they will be fine. Mine are a similar age and regularly travel Leeds to Peterborough to school on the train. Some things we did were:

Get a platform ticket if the station is a closed one- costs 10p you just buy them at the ticket desk. You can then meet the kids on the platform so don't need to worry about where to meet up/ put them in the train so you can find seats

Make sure one has a mobile phone you can track- find my friends in iPhone for example- and ring them 10 minutes before they need to get off.

Book first class- it's not much more for child tickets but it's less likely to be crowded and you get free snacks!

We've only had two problems with the train- one where it had to divert to go round a broken down train and ended up being half an hour late, and one where the train was cancelled, DS1 was 12 and just text me to say 'train cancelled pick me up at York'- he'd seen the departures board, gone to the ticket desk, heard the person in the queue ahead of him being told to get on any train north, and worked out the next train would go to York, which was close enough! He could have changed trains of course but it was easy enough for me to divert.

These days with the internet and mobiles they are rarely entirely alone, they know they can ring you for advise or look up what to do online. They will see it as an adventure!

I’d go first class as they’d be much less likely to have any cf trying to pinch their seats and they’d get drinks and snacks thrown in. Plus it’s generally nicer and if you can afford it and it’s part of their holiday adventure, why not?