Is there something fundamentally "wrong" with me? Totally undateable!

[LettuceBeFree]

I've always had a bit of a tough time making close friends for some reason but fairly easily attracted male interest yet now even that's not there anymore. In online dates recently, I only ever make it to the first or second date before they fade out on me... no huge row or anything, just lose interest, whereas in the past, I've made a couple of them last up to a year (where they initiated every day etc.)

I'll list my strengths and weaknesses (either perceived by myself or been told so):

Strengths:

1. Extremely academic (high qualifications, two university degrees, in an science field and an interesting job related to that).
2. Pretty/feminine face (wouldn't say drop dead gorgeous but have large round eyes, plump lips, smiley etc.. maybe a nose that's a tiny bit too big though), long hair, etc.
3. Size 8 with DD chest
4. Witty, lively/humorous
5. Independent (can go off and do my own thing for a while).
6. Can cook well
7. Can drive and have a car
8. Generally always in a good friendly mood.
9. Can talk a lot but also ask questions about the other person.
10. Not very prude-ish
11. I'm mid-20s so not an irresponsible teen nor very old and too mature.

Weaknesses:

1. Fairly rigid when it comes to plans e.g. I'm a planner and not very spur of the moment (but I don't think this trait will show out too much, more of an internal always planning mindset I've got).
2. I'm fairly short (around 5ft2)
3. If I feel someone's lying about something, I'll call them out on it very directly
4. Not a fan of getting married / kids and I tell guys this fairly early on (though not always).

The guys I meet from online are usually either average or slightly above average good looking (but certainly not chiseled hunks with amazing cheekbones and huge muscles) but wouldn't say out of my league and usually "lower" than me academically/fancy career-wise (but I don't care) and often comment that they think I'm so beautiful, so intelligent, etc. and how it makes them feel insecure etc, and they behave a bit nervous around me. I'm never stuck up/too proud of myself nor do I come across aggressive so I find it surprising men look uncomfortable around me and they'll very often be very hesitant to initiate a first kiss, etc (I dated a guy once who contacted me everyday and initiated every date for a YEAR (and we never got past the hugging stage). This guy, along with the others, weren't angelic priests as they'd even had one night stands in the past etc. so not the shy and retiring type!

What could I be doing wrong? I know not everyone's for everyone but the fact they fade out after date 1 or 2, is odd (as I'd not need to be the love of their life to make it past date 2..!)

Recently, was on date 2 with a guy who lied about something (without me asking him) to say he'd not dated anyone in months before he met but when I cross-checked this by asking something related a few hours later, it turns out he lied and when I called him out on it, he looked uncomfortable and tried to back track on what he said initially.. I stood my ground and then he offered to buy me a drink and I told him not to change the conversation topic (so I know I probably didn't come across very likeable with that guy...!) and not heard anything from him for days after this whereas he contacted me everyday before.

I worked in higher education for 25 years and unfortunately some academic types come over as very full of themselves and quite patronising. The comment about liking to date people less academic than you is just awful.

Is ‘sending pictures of nice cakes’ an euphemism?

I’m probably completely wrong but if I were a guy I’d see you as someone who takes them self a bit too seriously and possibly your obvious capability and independence as that you don’t really need anyone.

In my experience men like to think you need them. Not for you to be needy, but just a little something that they can help you with.

Watch the African Queen and learn from Rosie that you can be a strong woman but also have a tender side.

I feel a bit exhausted reading that OP. You sound quite uptight/hard work. I think you should relax a bit.

^

There's this. You sound very thorough, which could be seen as hard work, tbh.

And calling people out on stuff isn't a good idea, it'll just piss people off. I KNOW you don't want to change your personality etc but maybe just let things slide.

Main thing is this though :

Oh and he'd suddenly stop responding on some evenings about 8pm yet remain online (on and off) till midnight on whatsapp (and then will only text me in the next day morning saying "sorry, I fell asleep".. again, not bothered that he didn't reply after 8pm but bothered he chose to lie about it (if he said something like "oh my friend was having a bit of crisis so I hate to devote my time to chatting with him/her" or even no excuse, it'd be better than a blatant lie.

You don't think I should call out a guy who's told 3 lies (that I know of, within the very brief 1.5 weeks we've "known" each other? I'd think such small red flags will lead to bigger lies later on? Not sure where you get empathy from?
^

If you were a guy and this was a reverse, you'd be accused of online stalking. We'd all be advising you to ditch him, red flag, red flag, he sounds super controlling!

Did you ask him why he didn't reply, but he was still online?

It's great that you're confident and aware of your strengths. However, you do read a bit smug and that you view yourself as superior to others around you. I've never had problems making friends and I think it is because I am quite light hearted and self deprecating. I think maybe you could come across as a bit intimidating.

You mention that you've always struggled to make friends and that now you see yourself as undateable too. Do you think the two are linked?
Sorry if this reads harsh. It's just that you have asked for advice. Have you thought of asking anyone in RL for feedback?

The problem is though that how you portray yourself is who you are and there is not necessarily anything wrong with that. Maybe you just need to find that one person you are compatible with.

I don't know. I guess dating isn't a transaction. If a guy likes you he's not going to care about things like whether you can drive or how many degrees you have. It's more visceral than that.

I’d say you overthink things a bit. Having intellectual firepower is great, but there is such a thing as using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

Either find someone else who overthinks things, or learn to switch off a bit and relax.

If you find someone else who overthinks things, be aware that this relationship might not be a walk in the park. But it might be worth it.

Re “calling out”. I think that yes, some actions are a red flag. Treat them as such and don’t take it further with that person. Before you’re in a proper relationship, a red flag is usually just a reason to not see that person again rather than “call them out” on it.

Misconduct in a public or professional setting is different- challenge and call out then, it may do some good. But also find an effective technique to do so.

Within an established relationship (whether sexual, romantic or friendship) some gentle challenging to create insight or change can be effective. If it has to get to confrontation or “calling out” it’s likely to be ineffective, as it’ll just put someone on high defence mode. And if they are so lacking in insight they don’t respond to a gentle-ish challenge, then is it really going to work?

Your title suggests sonebody with self esteem issues. Your OP sounds like you are a bit up yourself to be frank. A degree of humility goesa long way

I think you sound immature and intense.

Potential friends and lovers will be drawn to people who make them feel good about themselves. Maybe have a think about whether that is something you do well?

Also, in my very long experience, 'opposites attract' is bullshit. Most successful long term relationships are built on the things people have in common.

Not in a horrible way, but have you considered autism? You sound like me and I am being assessed and definitely have traits.

I'm not sure about the way you describe yourself physically - and it is quite high up the list. A small dress size and big boobs is stereotypically attractive. But I have usually ended up with men who I wouldn't say are my physical type, because personality and chemistry supersedes this. And different people like different things: not all men would see your physical type as a strength.

I am trying to say, I think, don't see this as an issue in the mix of dating. If you do, you may be trying to attract the wrong people.

@blinkyandbunty
I totally agree that whilst opposites attract can have an immediate attraction, it doesn’t last long 10 years down line.

OP I would say, from OLD experience, don’t invest too long in messaging back and forth without meeting.once you have established it’s mutual attraction enough to meet, organise meet up.You can get far more from the person over an hour coffee than you can in a months worth of messaging! Also do it informally- a lot of guys suggest the whole dinner/drinks thing- say no, hour or so coffee at a coffee shop.That way your not sat through 3 courses trapped !!
Nearly all men on OLD lie about when they split up with their ex in my experience, their quite good at signing up immediately to dating sites as soon as their relationships are over , I can only assume they think that “ I’ve been missing out” and “ill show my ex I m wanted by other women “?!?!
I found OLD exhausting , I heard a couple of men say too that they had had great one night hook ups within an hr of chatting, then I think they believe that every woman will be same on there and your too much hard work if want traditional dating , their like kids in candy shop.
When you stop looking it will find you .. honestly

Op, what are you hoping to get from this thread? You asked a question and when people try to help you and say what the issue may be, you come back strongly defensively about why it's not.

None of us know you in real life. We can only go from what you write here, if you are attractive and intelligent, and men are not interested after briefly getting to know you, then the issue lies in how you come across and interact with people. There is no two ways about it.

No one is saying put up with liars but an ability to contextualise a lie, is important as it then dictates the extent of the reaction.

On this thread and from what you've described you come across as self absorbed, self important, defensive, aggressive, lacking empathy, and quite hard work.

None of us see you on dates, we don't know how you interact, but it's something about that interaction that is causing men to back off.

I'm a member of Mensa. My iq is in the top two percent of the population. In my younger years, or even now, I've never ever considered if someone is less intelligent than me. It's simply never occurred to me, for the sole reason their personality is what's important. This is how I judge people. And I never struggled to get a man interested or stay interested. So maybe stop with the whole I'm more intelligent crap and actually try to get to know people. You're not competing with your dates and you don't need to prove or stamp your intelligence over everyone you meet.

That's a sign of low self esteem.

Maybe you over ananlyse things a bit?? Maybe saying you do t want to marry and have children?
Just go with the flow, have a laugh and get pissed.... the right guy will turn up. I met my partner age 30 and before that wasn't with anyone serious but I had a lot of fun!

What if there’s absolutely nothing wrong with you and you’re perfectly dateable as you are, but you haven’t met the right person through OLD yet?

If everyone in a relationship wrote a list about themselves, I bet they’d come to the conclusion they were pretty undateable too ;) you’re still so young, and you don’t want to be prolonging unsuitable relationships. Having the unsuitable ones fizzle out quickly sounds like a blessing to me. Read other people’s experiences of OLD- people being flaky/ fading out quickly/ ghosting/ really interested at first then losing interest is so common. It’s not just a you problem, I promise!

Two things, LettuceBeFree, come to mind.

First, are you kind? There’s no mention of warm or kindness in your list of qualities. That matters to most people. I know someone who thinks he’s extremely clever (and in some ways he is) who doesn’t see the point of actually just being kind to people, particularly if they’re not clever.

Second, the need to be right and for things to be totally true. I live with someone who has ASD and needs constantly for things to be accurate and for him to know more facts in any conversation. (I’m not saying you have ASD by the way, just contextualising him.) It can be totally exhausting to be picked up on every loose comment, or metaphor, or vague fact. And yes, most people probably inadvertently say many untrue things through the course of the day and most people don’t mind. If I went on a date and was challenged throughout for minor inconsistencies or even white lies, then I wouldn’t go on a second.

I guess dating isn't a transaction. If a guy likes you he's not going to care about things like whether you can drive or how many degrees you have. It's more visceral than that.

Yes, I agree with this completely. Nor is it an experiment where if you create x conditions you get y result.

The lying thing... If a guy embroiders the truth on the first few dates that’s hardly noteworthy. Part of getting to know someone is navigating all that stuff and deciding whether it’s harmless flirting or a bit more sinister. If it’s the latter, I’d suggest dropping him and not arranging any more dates, rather than “calling him out”. That sounds like you’re scolding him. Just move on.

It might be worth dating someone with a similar academic background to you. Some men (not all men!) would be put off by a woman who has a better education.

Otherwise, and I appreciate this is easier said than done, it might be helpful to take a more laid back approach to all of this.

@TheAnswerIsInABookSomewhere I totally agree.so many people ditch OLD because people are flakey, its a form of social media after all.
I guess that people will only tell their best side, it’s a bit like a job interview after all?

I’d say just relax, go out in real life, ask your friends if they know a single man etc , ditch the OLD for a while- it’s a bit like browsing Facebook all day every day, you could begin to feel you live an inferior life if you believed everything everyone posts/photos etc.
Go out and live life for you, that will attract someone.

I don't think the not wanting a family is a negative, and know several couples who have not had children and did not want them.

Have you ever actually been in a long term relationship?

I hate to say it but clearly it is something to do with your personality.
You come across as being really obsessed with lies (unnaturally so) and I think the poster who mentioned not making people feel good about themselves is on to something (hence the question above.)

My guess OP is a mixture between them feeling intimidated and getting pulled up on every single 'lie'. I have a real problem with false memories, I've had it for years so I've eventually learned to accept being gently corrected. But.. being pulled up on it as if I'm deliberately lying would really upset me. I'd suggest you cool off on the calling out of untruths and pick your lie battles in the future.

You sound quite hard work to be honest! This is where OLD falls down, you shouldn't have to try so hard to advertise yourself.

You went out with a man for an entire year without even kissing? Exclusively? Did you consider it an actual relationship?

That is very strange OP. You come across in this thread as very intense and I can see why that would put people off.

Date an academic from a different discipline- they’ll ‘get’ the whole rigour and challenge thing and neither of you will be intimidated by eachothers’ careers. Go find yourself a nice economist or political scientist :)