#banthebooths - do you agree?

[AheartybowlofJan]

I came across this hashtag on twitter today and after reading around it think they may well have a good point. Especially when it comes to no regulation over how long children can stay in these booths over consecutive days. And the fact that SN and BAME children are disproportionately represented in the figures when they are collected.

Our trust has a “unit” where DC are excluded to with children from other schools in the same trust. No lunch break, no outside time at all, from 8.30-4 they are in the booth and do not leave except to use the toilet.

It’s like prison for kids!

School discipline has always been a problem

Ten but this isn't the answer. I've also noticed that their use has increased since so many schools have been academised.

TeenTimesTwo - I don't know, I appreciate they are probably stuck between a rock and a hard place. But they could start by voting out the Tories.

I teach teenagers who have social, emotional and mental health difficulties, what used to be emotional and behavioural difficulties. We do not and would never use “isolation booths”. We have a separate building with a small classroom and 2-3 breakout rooms for students who cannot be in the main building. There is one (admittedly very strict but well regarded) teacher in charge and he teaches in the main classroom there. A student can choose to work in a smaller breakout room if they want to or they may be sent there if they continue to be disruptive in the small classroom. The second option very rarely happens.

Admittedly we have much, much smaller numbers of students (currently about 50). My personal opinion is that for many students being stuck in isolation doesn’t actually change anything and I would imagine in every secondary schools there are many repeat offenders. I would like to see something else or additional in place for them (in some schools there may be).

@sakura06 that’s just a random google image.

@Teachermaths in my (old) cluster there were several. And more around the city.

In my school, kids were locked away - you could hear screaming and banging. I put in a complaint and left.

Hi Paul Dix, are you still annoyed that your petition only got a measly 700 signatures?

People found out that what you were spouting is bullshit and you’re trying to sell your own behaviour management system to schools.

Kids are not being put into cells. Disruptive children need to be removed from the classroom.

And Ofsted and others are always banging on about reducing exclusion rates so schools are forced to keep disruptive kids in school rather than sending them home.

Where do you want these kids to go?

To end up in the booths they will have done something serious

Like forget a pen or wear the wrong socks?

You get put in isolation (a booth) for that at dss school. Its ridiculous.

Wearing the wrong socks is pretty hard to do though isn't it?

Your parent reads the school uniform list and buys a job lot of black socks. (If short of money you only have black socks, and no other random ones.)
You know you have to wear black socks.
You put them on in the morning.

You have to more or less actively choose to wear the wrong socks (the most chaotic and poor families aside).

To end up in the booths they will have done something serious

Like forget a pen or wear the wrong socks

You get put in isolation (a booth) for that at dss school. Its ridiculous.
I would agree with on that point.
A few of the young people that I'm working have done things a lot more serious than that but in our strategy meeting we are doing our best to keep them in school as we know if they are excluded they will face neglect at home, be out unsupervised and be extremely at risk and a PRU isnt the right place for them at the moment. However other pupils and teachers need to be kept safe from violence and abuse. Often the abuse escalates on a class room where the pupil has an audience. The young person often calm down a lot quicker when there is no one to " perform' to and keep up the hard image.

Wearing the wrong socks is pretty hard to do though isn't it?
Just to add to this point some pupils do this deliberately to ' prove a point' , to show they can do what they want and the teachers cant do a thing about it.
( that's there brag) so what may seem a small thing isnt really, especially when other things are factored in eg a shoulder nudge on the corridor ( hard to prove it was an accident, deliberately swearing when there's a teacher around,) it's the small things that add up so although it can seem a harsh penalty behaviour has to kept in check. ( again I know about chaotic, dysfunctional families, I'm talking about the kids that want to prove a point)

The thing is though, putting you in a booth is going to have a much worse effect on your education, than your choice of socks, isnt it. Its entirely backwards and what does it actually teach our children?

And no points could be proven if you could where whatever socks you liked in the first place...

I've never come across the sick issue with the kids I work with but my colleagues have, it's not just about socks. My experience of young people in booths is for much more serious reasons.
As for them not learning while they are in booths, nobody is learning while they are disrupting the whole class. At least they are safe in a building and not going MFH, at risk of being groomed , smoking weed in the middle of the morning for doing other other risk taking behavioursetc

The thing is though, putting you in a booth is going to have a much worse effect on your education, than your choice of socks, isnt it. Its entirely backwards and what does it actually teach our children?

It teaches them to follow rules even if they think they are pointless. Which helps them become law abiding citizens, and helps them follow dress codes at work later, whether formal or informal.
it keeps the non-conforming pupils away from the rest of the student body so the disregard of the rules isn't seen and copied 'well James was wearing pink socks yesterday'.
It makes the being a rebel not worth it as they don't get kudos from their peers, but instead a boring day of work with little interaction.

And for other more disruptive behaviours it gives the teachers and other pupils a break from James' 'witty comments' or his 'I was only saying' or whatever.

If a pupils is in isolation repeatedly it clearly isn't working, and something else needs to be done.

If a normally model pupil suddenly explodes then underlying causes should be looked at.

And isolation for forgetting a pen is OTT.

But isolation for a pupil who has been warned and given a chance to behave is imo a reasonable sanction for a teacher to have available.

If you can wear whatever socks, then the rebel child will find something else to not follow. Even schools with no uniforms will have policies as to what and what isn't acceptable.

Kids don't get isolation for forgetting a pen once.

They get it for telling a teacher to f*ck off.
For constantly derailing a lesson or more than one.
For serious defiance or refusal to follow instructions.

Same in every school I know.

Equipment fails (and I has to be more than one) they get detention after school. Fail to do that get SLT detention. Fail to that.....THEN you're isolated for not doing your detentions.

belindas well they do at dss school....

I’m not talking about desks with dividers. The booths at my DCs school are ceiling to floor “deep” booths.

The work which is set is worksheet after worksheet (on par with writing lines). It isn’t marked or given any feedback, it’s just a mindless time filling activity.

Shipping in kids from 5 different schools and putting them all in a room together...I just don’t think it works.

There are many schools who successfully manage bad behaviour without isolation booths

Our kids school has a C1/2/3 system.

C3 = isolation booth the next day. You can get a C3 if you get 3 C1s in the same lesson. Or a C2 and a C1 or C3 on its own.

C1 = being late. Chewing gum. Forgetting equipment. Shouting out. Wrong uniform

C2 = a repeat of C1 behaviour. Arguing back with a teacher about previous C1s.

C3 = swearing, fighting, walking out of class, any physical acting out.

So you could legitimately get a day in isolation for turning up late without a pen and the wrong socks.

@AheartybowlofJan
Where are these schools?

Every school I have worked in or toured has some kind of behaviour for learning room.

What would you do about the child who is constantly disrupting the education of the other 31 students?

Ahearty

So really your object is that lack of stimulating work being given within a particular group of schools for pupils in this unit?
And the fact that children are being sent there for extended lengths of time? How long? More than 3-5 days?
Are you involved in the trust in any capacity?

Turning up late without the right equipment isn't OK. It disrupts the lesson near the start, both for the lateness and the pen.

You say in theory you could end up in isolation for it. I bet in reality the teacher hands you a pen, gives a detention for lateness and cracks on with their lesson.

I’d put them in isolation. My issue is with the physical booths. Sensory deprivation of children. No outside exercise. Using isolation as a punishment. No rules on how many consecutive days a child can spend in one.

Could you sit in a booth between 8-4 for days on end with no interaction during that time?

We have a deescalation room with padded mats on the walls and a padded floor. We have some high needs children who when dysregulated, attack staff (hitting, kicking, biting, spitting) and in a class or office situation, throw furniture at us. When we are in the room, us and the child are safe and we can help them to regulate again. Our exclusion rate would be a lot higher if we didn’t have this space and more people would be at risk. This is a mainstream primary school and we do provide a big package of nurture intervention/provision for these pupils.

10, even 5 years ago we wouldn’t have needed such a room. We have seen a huge increase and escalation in social, emotional and mental health issues.

Don’t think that there isn’t a need and that schools are acting unreasonably for having such a space (as long as used correctly). I also refuse to believe that the previous picture is from a British school without a link!

The C system used to work well. C4 was usually a detention but mostly it was used fairly and students tended to stop and reign themselves in.

So you could legitimately get a day in isolation for turning up late without a pen and the wrong socks
Well theres an easy way to avoid isolation then. The teachers know the chaotic families from the on doing it deliberate to get a reaction and to hold the class up repeatedly.

So are saying if you had a child that was well behaved you wouldnt want someone removed from their class for deliberately disrupting the education of your child repeatedly. I would.
If it was your child that ended up in isolation what would you do about it? Object to isolation and let them continue doing what they want when they want.
I am interested in how people want the behaviour managed because I honestly dont think there is an easy answer.