If you earn £80k or more, what do you do?

[wheresmymojo]

Following on from another thread.

Partly because I'm nosey and partly because I'd love a career change but I'm the breadwinner so would still need to earn £££ to keep our current lifestyle.

I think we may decide in time to dial the lifestyle down so I don't have to work in a job I hate but for now debt means that's impossible.

So what do those on here who are high earners (£80k+) do?

On the questions someone asked:

Do you have very good A level results
Yes. AAA (no A* then) however my GCSEs were highly average and I only came into my own as I matured.

Do you have a first or 2:1 from good university in sought after subject?
Don’t know about ‘sought after’ subject but it’s a solid traditional subject that is both numerate and literate.
I have a 1st from a RG uni.

What did you do in your holidays from sixth form?
I actually can’t attest to doing anything especially worthy in my 6th form holidays.
Read. Slept. Saw my family. Went on holiday. Kept fit. Had driving lessons!
Had a gap year after school and got a full time job in retail (which was amazing for me, I really grew up).

What extracurricular achievements do you have?

• Several sports to a moderate level (county teams but no more).
• More sports to a much lower level (school second team) but I’m a very good person at turning up, taking part and giving my all despite skill not being amazing!
• Music, which I loved but wasn’t especially talented, so hard work kept me in the ensemble. We won many competitions and played in many grand venues. Grade 8 in one instrument.
• Bronze, Silver and Gold D of E
• Drama, I’m no star but I’m a good team player and solid in a minor role

I was quite immature in that I liked doing things like the above and was not into boys or clubbing or that kind of stuff. I came into my own at uni but luckily by that time I had a solid base and work ethic already in place.

What were your achievements in your first job and what additional accredited qualifications did you obtain?
Ooooh yes let me answer this, one never gets to boast about this stuff :-)

Well firstly just getting my job was an achievement. I graduated in the financial crisis and jobs were scarce. However I had spend my 2nd year at uni working on a career plan, going to a shit load of presentations and networking events to narrow down my plan, and interviewing for (paid!) summer internships. I was offered two and chose the shortest but highest paying one as I had an expensive summer of competitions to fund. At the end of that I was offered a job for post graduation. Thank goodness I did this, because the world I graduated into was a very different animal.

I knew I wanted a decent paid job, but nothing with hours as bad as investment banking. So it was about finding a middle ground. Thank you WestLB presentation and networking event 2007 for showing me that.

• Top rated performer in my intake for first four years (before I moved role).
• 1st time exam passes with many top marks in the region and some national prizes as well. First time in my life I felt clever.
• Most junior “in charge” for my offices flagship account.

Did you just do one job? If so, how did you broaden your skills and cv?
As in one job at a time? My role isn’t one where you can work on a second job the side.

I broadened skills through the typical ways of getting involved with projects that were tangential, identifying mentors, taking on additional roles and responsibilities etc

Have you sought promotion frequently?
Yup

Have you persisted until you get promotion?
Yes.
Next step now is the hardest and I need to get my head down and push. This one is more political than simply the next rung.

Have you continued to gain additional qualifications as you move up the ladder?
Accountant, so once I was qualified I was sort of qualified. However I continue to learn all the time, read academic books/plaster and blogs, contribute to publications and the ICAEW special interest group, and speak at lectures etc.

Have you put in the hours and can you show ongoing leadership, innovation and sustained achievement?
Yes except probably not innovation. I’m not an innovative person.

Have you been willing to move for promotion or broader experience?

Yes, stayed in my university city for 4 years then moved to London to Ofer into a different area that only really exists in London.

The whole luck thing - there is always an element of luck. The role I wanted in London - I’d been meeting people and networking, getting involved in some of their projects, really pushing to get onto the team. But there were no job opportunities. Then a few months later (whilst still doing all the above - but also looking at other options) I get a call that there is a job and it’s mine if I want it.

So that’s partly luck isn’t it? Right place right time? But if I hadn’t been extremely visible to the partner I wouldn’t have got that call.

I would say the key thing that has helped me in my career is being enthusiastic and dependable. I’m there, I’m a hard worker and It’s clear I enjoy it.
Also honest - if I can’t do something or I won’t be able to deliver to the timescale I flag early and manage expectations. I also try and provide solutions to problems.

Also I’ve been good at picking out mentors and working with them, having a strong sponsor (who thinks you’re ace) is very helpful in career progression and bonus allocation.

One other thing, I interview well. If I make it to the interview stage, I have never not been offered the job. This is def something to practice and get help with if it’s an area that lets you down.

£650 a day equates to a gross salary of £169k, based on a 260 working days.

You should be able to find a reasonable job in your sector paying a gross of around £100k, then elect to work 4 days a week, which would give you £80k gross.

Even after tax and pension contributions you would still have about £4k net per month to live on, which is plenty, unless you are servicing a million pound mortgage

unless you are servicing a million pound mortgage
Yeah, or paying school fees.

It’s fascinating (but unsurprising) that high earners seem to be able to answer most questions positively and understand how those behaviours/achievements lead to higher income. Whilst it’s not foolproof, it’s not really luck either, is it?

Do you have very good A level results?
Yes. I got 7 As (no A*s at that time). I sat them over the course of one year, allowing me to go to university early.

Do you have a first or 2:1 from good university in sought after subject?
I got two first class (4.0) degrees (double major) from an Ivy League university. One was in Economics, so a skill based degree, the other in Political Science. I then got a PhD in the latter, again from an Ivy. I had scholarships for both, that included travel, living expenses and a stipend. I am now at Law school, sponsored by the government I work for, completing a JD.

What did you do in your holidays from sixth form?
I only had one, between university and sixth form. I got a grant to fund research, travel and living expenses researching at a US university.

What extracurricular achievements do you have?
Before university, I was tutoring and also served as a certified archery coach. I was politically active, and was the elected Conservative Future (awaits hate) lead for my constituency, as well as partaking in youth politics. I also volunteered at the local library to support children enjoy reading.

At university, I started a business development program that won a few awards and government funding. I was a decent medium distance runner, and I babysat. I sat on a lot of committees. Academically (in my spare time), I was attending conferences and publishing papers in my field. I served as an academic assistant to the Dean, and I was the student lead on alumni relations.

Now, as I am enrolled at law school in the US as one more academic treat, I do voluntary work with asylum seekers from the Middle East when I am in the UK. I help them access services, provide a listening ear and help them with their casework. I also serve as a governor at a school in the Middle East.

What were your achievements in your first job and what additional accredited qualifications did you obtain?
First full time job was at a think tank, I was there for most of my first year of university. I wrote a manuscript on a very specific subject, with some quite radical ideas, it was published. I got headhunted to take a position with a government to support that process. I still work in that exact field. I won other awards at the thinktank for research in a war zone etc. I learnt two foreign languages there, they got me into some PhD classes to show me I’d enjoy them, I ran a conference on my area of interest (best networking opportunity, as it turns out).

Did you just do one job? If so, how did you broaden your skills and cv?
No. I shifted from thinktanks, governments, private defense companies, my own consultancy. In the end, I found a balance between government advisory, research and my own company. I also spent a lot of time before I became a parent, working in dangerous places. My willingness to do that, and ability to do so calmly, earned a lot of respect. I also discovered that I’m good at emotionally connecting to people even in very serious situations, and it gave me a lot more confidence.

Have you sought promotion frequently?
Actually not so much promotion, but I get bored easily if I don’t feel overwhelmed with mental stimulation. I hate being bored. So I always wanted new projects, came up with new ideas and pursued them, worked with people outside of my primary expertise to help them out. You end up needing a bigger title, and that’s always happened quickly along the way so far. Now I’m as senior as I can be with my advisory job, I am focusing on delivering results. I have the freedom to do so, and it’s great. Having my own company means there are no limits on growth too.

Have you persisted until you get promotion?
In my industry, to get more projects/power, it’s a political game. I’m a strategist by nature, so have found this comes naturally to me, and is something I enjoy.

Have you continued to gain additional qualifications as you move up the ladder?
Yes. Law school is an example of this. I’m looking at an MA in Economics afterwards too. I love learning. I picked up more languages, and sat proficiency exams in computer science topics.

Have you put in the hours and can you show ongoing leadership, innovation and sustained achievement?
I’m on maternity leave now, but in phone calls, emails, house visits I’m working 40hrs. I get to set much of my own hours outside of meetings, but I love my job, and will skip sleep to work. Usually, I work about 90hrs across all work. I can show innovation and sustained achievement. Leadership is more complex because it’s not a typical job, I get to be more of an invisible puppeteer if you will.

Have you been willing to move for promotion or broader experience?
Yes, moved without question to the US, then the Middle East. Shocked my parents a bit! Now we have a son, and a daughter on the way soon, we have properties in the ME, UK and US and move between them over the year per work needs. DH works in oil/gas, so the locations suit him too. We have already spoken to our preferred schools about this and worked out an agreement.

@CherryPavlova thanks so much for the reply. I have been thinking along similar lines career-wise, although it would be children's nursing I would pursue if I did follow the nursing pathway. Strangely I'd actually never thought of a SENCO role in a mainstream school if I went into teaching, despite liaising with one quite a bit, so thanks for that suggestion. My major issue is that I would be rubbish in a management role which does often preclude me from applying for higher-paying jobs in my sector.

Anyway, thanks for making me feel like all is not lost. I was genuinely feeling a bit depressed about it! I'll have a think about all your suggestions

Some of us,despite having worked hard at school and achieved well (yes to As at A-Level, First from RG university) are not in high-paid jobs because we followed a vocation - teaching/nursing/charity sector. Yes, this was a choice but sadly society relies on some people choosing to do a "worthwhile" job over earning a very high salary.

I am also amazed at and envious of! how many high-earners on here regularly get to drop-off/pick-up their DC from school, attend school events and not do any work in the evenings or at weekends. I manage drop-off and pick up once per week because I work 0.8. Wouldn't be able to do any if I was working full-time. I also work every evening and most weekends.I earn less than 30k.

As for the comment that teachers and nurses can earn 500k if they do some extra qualifications . While a tiny, tiny minority might end up as CEOs of academy chains, the very fact that most go into it for vocational reasons means that they wouldn't end up at that level as many see it as dancing with the devil, considering the damage that has been done to education from the academy system.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with choosing to be a high earner, but that even the high earners rely on other people choosing less well-paid careers.

Yes I was going to say, that question is missing one: did your parents instil a sense of vocation in you that drew you towards less well-paying careers?

And the handful of academy CEO chain leaders are hardly teachers any more are they? they're business managers in the educational sector. And the Durand head's financial setup is pretty controversial.

It’s all a game really isn’t it. Thank god for people who do follow a vocation, we all benefit from your choice to do that. For me I wanted a decent salary and a job that I could work 9-5 and potentially set up on my own to have money AND flexibility. I’ll be very clear with my kids about the reality of all the options in life. I’d be surprised if any of them choose a vocation (or any job that bleeds you dry for little thanks). It’s not what I’d want for anyone I care about and I did my best to talk my little cousin out of nursing (sorry but she was a 16 yr old with a dream). She’s now a burnt out 22 yr old, deeply frustrated with the system, loves the nursing job but says it’s almost impossible to do it well anymore. Her saving grace is she inherited a huge amount so will never struggle financially, unlike most of her colleagues.

It’s a game.

To be honest I find it utterly frustrating that I do a job that many wouldn't want to do (or, frankly, wouldn't be any good at) but am totally penalised for that decision financially. I love my job but I can't afford to buy a house or take my children on holiday. But if no one did my job then many families would be in crisis.

Obviously I'm aware there are many thousands of people in this situation and I don't think I'm some kind of saint! But I'm not sure that I love this capitalist society which looks down so much on people who do essential jobs.

DB is an airline pilot.

Nothing wrong with wanting a comfortable life. I bloody wish I had taken a different path when I was younger, I'm in a job that admittedly I love, but pays peanuts. I have a good brain and I feel very much like I've wasted it.

Orlando I don't know, I feel completely conflicted about it all to be honest. I probably should have done medicine when I was younger but I had mental health issues as well as low self esteem so who knows if it would have been a good move anyway. I was in the top 5 academically in my year of nearly 200 at secondary, so it is difficult in some ways to feel like I've never achieved what I could have done.

Theres suddenly a lot of competency-for- role-proving, when it was made clear this is not about asking pp to be proving competency or demanding justifications for being in high paid roles.

This is not what others have been saying that anyone in a high paid role has to show us all all their qualifying criteria for that role.

@TruthOnTrial I see what you mean. But I also think that understanding the path people took to get their role might help people seeking a career change, the purpose of this thread.

A good work / life balance seems far easier to achieve once you have attained a senior position. It's those working full time in the £20-£30k bracket I think who have the worst of it in terms of stress and responsibility v not having the seniority to demand flexibility to drop children at school in the morning and start late, attend their concerts etc.

I've fallen way behind my own thread so am just catching up on the 'privilege' discussion.

I grew up in a poor area that was really in decline after the mines and potteries closed (Stoke). My DM dropped out of college at 17 to have me, my DF was an abusive alcoholic. We packed our bags and left in the middle of the day when he was out when I was 3.

We lived in a little terraced house with bare floorboards (eventually had carpet but not for the first couple of years). DM worked two jobs to make enough money to keep the house and some food on the table.

I went to a state school. I had no financial assistance to go to university beyond what was available in terms of a loan to all students and the odd hardship grant.

I also have bipolar disorder and have spent six months in a psychiatric hospital in my 30's.

So not overflowing with privilege here

Of course there's more to it than just hard work and intelligence and clever career moves.

I'm primarily motivated by money so did a degree that I knew would be a good start for a job with a good salary (law) and then chose an industry to go into based on what I could earn.

People who are motivated by other things and go into nursing, midwifery, teaching, social work have much less chance to earn the same irrespective of how hard they work, how intelligent they are and how clever their career moves are.

Equally....being born with a high IQ is sheer luck in and of itself 🤷🏻‍♀️

@ChangeMyWorld

I'm 36 but have been on this income since 33/34.

I found that I had to move to a role in the City. I'd got to £50k with my first employer but it was very much obvious that even though they were a large company it was a case of having to wait until one of about four roles came free to move up to the next level there.

There were no obvious contenders for retirement , etc and not much turnover.

So I moved to a similar role (sort of half a step up) in the City and went to £65k when I was about 28.

A few people joined on the same role as me at the same time. I knew that some of them were on £75-80k because of their experience (they were much older). However in reality they weren't actually very good at the job whereas I was getting top performance ratings.

So I started a 12 month campaign to get my pay upped on the basis that I should surely be paid in line with my performance, not my age/experience. They eventually offered me a £5k raise but by that time I'd got fed up and interviewed elsewhere - they offered £75k. I put in my resignation and the CEO asked to see me and said I could have what I wanted (within reason) so that got me to £80k & £5k car allowance which I took as cash.

Then a couple of years later there was a big restructure and I was redundant along with 200 others so I went contracting which gives me £575-650 per day depending on the contract.

A good work / life balance seems far easier to achieve once you have attained a senior position

Absolutely. That's clearly one of the myths that holds women back, that 6 figure salary must mean you work all the hours and never see the kids. I have better work life balance now than when I earned a 10th of my current salary. Plus I have the resources to outsource what I need to make the life easier.

DippyAvocado I can’t think of many academy chain CEOs who felt they weren’t following their vocation to improve the life chances of children from all backgrounds. It’s that passion for their vocation that led most to becoming CEOs - to have a wider impact.

Worthwhile and well paid aren’t mutually exclusive. Most Directors of Nursing (and there are plenty) consider their job both worthwhile and just an extension of their earlier roles. They were all student/staff nurses a while back.

If you don’t want to be a high earner, that’s absolutely a valid choice but let’s not pretend you are somehow more worthy because you accept a lower salary and don’t want to climb the career ladder. Headteachers remain headteachers. Heads of midwifery remain midwives. Chief Fire Officers remain firefighters.

G5000. Of course it is for all sorts of reasons. Not least you have to put the graft in to get to the senior position, your children tend to be older so easier to juggle and you can afford more support in the home.

The discussion around vocations is an interesting one. I know it’s typically used for roles that are seen as “worthy” but not hugely well paid- teaching, nursing, etc. However, the traditional definition is about roles that you’re particularly drawn to/passionate about.

I’m passionate about my job. It happens to be very well paid, but I don’t see how I should view it as less of a vocation than a teacher views their position.

I'm an architect at partner level. We both earn within 20/40k of each other so pretty similar really.

Both of us were very fortunate and come from a privileged start to life. It's a long slog to qualify as an architect 7 years for most so many of the profession are from families who provided support throughout uni
But that is changing there are now apprenticeship schemes to allow some to work and study.

Also, for most architects we are far far less renumerated than others in the building industry. Many of whom are not from the same background as I, a recently qualified architect will earn less than a site manager for example. Partners in construction companies or management companies salary is often far greater pay than I for example and most are school leavers from the local comp.

Work life balance I agree does seem to get easier the more you climb up the ladder (at least for me anyway).

But then I decided to set up another business three months ago and it's gone out the window! Hopefully another 2/3 years it'll settle again

I earn around 100K as a medical consultant in a small speciality (around 70 of us in the UK). I come from a working class background and went to the same comprehensive school as my parents and brother (who works in IT and earns a lot more than me!). Got into medical school at an RB university which wasn't easy with no medics in the family. You need work experience to get into a medical degree and I was rejected by 5 out of 6 places I wrote to. I was astounded by the number of private school kids I met at university. I've worked bloody hard and accumulated a lot of debt (thankfully now paid off) to get to where I am today. But I had a goal in sight and I was determined to get there. The salary is great but not the reason I did it. I enjoy my job and it gives me a lot of satisfaction. I have two children and get to do plenty but not all drop offs and pick ups.