I need some advice from a “tough mum”

[hilbobaggins]

I’m so sick of being me in certain aspects of my parenting. I’m genuinely in need of a personality transplant, or failing that some advice from someone who’s a lot tougher / firmer than me.

One particular area of conflict is bedtime. My 6 year old DS will NOT go to sleep alone. He “needs” me to be in the bedroom with him. I cajole, cuddle, lie next to him, keep the lights on, run his back, wait for him to go to sleep, whatever it takes. If I’m not with him, or I get up to leave, he jumps out of bed and sticks to me like glue. “Mummy I need to be with you, can I come with you,
I’m lonely, I don’t want to be alone, I’m sad, im a people person, I’m scared, Etc etc.

I feel like a prisoner in his bedroom and I’m starting to really resent it. I’m also angry with myself for creating this situation. I need to find a way to love him but emotionally disconnect from him and the guilt I feel that he feels lonely and sad (he’s an only child). I really need to be tougher. I just don’t know how to do it.

Help, please?

My dd likes to play sleep sounds on her Alexa dot to help her sleep. Something like that may help so he feels less lonely. for you.

One story. One kiss/cuddle. Audiobook on. Leave. Check up on him after 5 mins until the new routine is bedded in. Remind him he must stay in bed, getting out of bed after last kiss will result in no reward (star chart etc.) in the morning.

I would make the half hour before bed really lovely. Focus on him. My kids had a bath every night as part of the bedroom routine. Snack then relaxing bath, not rushed, followed by three stories and a cuddle and that was it. I went downstairs and there was no messing after that .. usually!
I think it worked because there was a gradual transition from downstairs to upstairs/day to night; they weren't just popped into pyjamas and left alone suddenly (not saying that's what you do OP just trying to explain)
There's lots of stuff I'd do differently if I had my time again but the bedtime routine was one thing that did seem to work well and it was worth spending between 30-45 minutes on it to get a pretty much guaranteed child-free evening once they were settled. Plus the story time was often the nicest and most peaceful part of the day. I miss it tbh.
At his age you could talk about this with your DS - explain that bedtime is going to be different and plan a fun time with a game and stories once he's in his pyjamas; make it really nice. The agreement on his part is that once he's in bed he stays in bed and you leave him to go to sleep. Because you won't have time to play before bed if he keeps asking you to stay after he should be going to sleep ..
If you think it's going to work better for the first few times you can promise to pop up after ten minutes (and if you say you will make sure you stick to what you've said) to give him another kiss but no hanging about allowed!

I've just been through a similar scenario with my middle child who is younger at nearly 4. I started slowly with, 'mummy has some jobs to do so I'll just be doing them
While you fall asleep' then I'd fold a pit away clothes making sure to pop my head around the door every now and then to check on her. It was a pain and we had a few regressions but I started in March and can now just leave her to fall asleep on her own. I found that when I was staying with her it was taking longer and longer for her to get to sleep. Now, from lights off til fast asleep it's about 10 minutes. Good luck though it's hard x

Oh man I feel I sound very harsh compared to some responses on here but if it were my boy, I'd be sure his "needs" were just prolonging and excuses. And therefore I wouldn't be having him manipulate me like this. Your son is learning that he can get his own way - that he doesn't need to go to sleep until he says so, that you'll bend over backwards to his last whim. That's not healthy surely? Personally, I'd do usual bedtime routine, if he gets up it's led back to bed with nice talk, anything after that is a firm it's bedtime and no communication or eye contact afterwards.

Maybe I'm too harsh, but kids don't want to go to bed and this just sounds like mollycoddling

My 8 year old is going through a similar thing. She has been suffering from symptoms of anxiety due to a health issue, but now this has turned in to refusing to go to bed. She's perfectly fine until I go to leave the room then the tears start, she's up and down the stairs at least 4 or 5 times. I'm
Confident that this isn't to do with her genuine worries, more so just she doesn't want to go to bed. One of the reasons tonight was because her eyes are too dry when she closes them!
So I've been firm but understanding with her. Explained she has to go to bed, she has to stay in her room and can read/listen to relaxing music if this helps. But up and down the stairs from 8pm until 10.30pm is ridiculous.
You know your child better than anyone OP so you will know if there is a genuine reason or if they are just pushing boundaries.
Parenting is hard isn't it!! Good luck x

Tbh I wouldn't overthink this, beat yourself up, or look for Deep Reasons he is like this.

He is trying it on. In the nicest possible way!

So explain in advance that now we are doing bedtime differently. We'll do bath, cuddles, story or quiet play, teeth, bed. Bed is x time and then mummy is going downstairs. If he is good and stays in bed he can have Teddy/ the door open/ etc. If not, Mummy will close his door/ consequence of choice.

Then just do it. First couple of nights will be hell while he sees if you really mean it. Then I think he'll get over it and ultimately like it. Kids need boundaries and it sounds like he is quite insecure, constantly seeing who,'s really in charge.

Also being tough doesn't mean being mean. When DD1 acts up at bedtime I laugh, hug her and say "you are pushing boundaries aren't you! Now 5 seconds to get back in bed before MummyMonster comes and gets you!"

I agree with the p.p who suggest moving out of the room slowly etc.
What really helped my dd was telling her that even though i wasnt in the room with her, I wasn't apart from her, because mummies and their babies are joined by an invisible string, heart to heart.
No matter what.It can't be cut or broken , it is super stretchy etc.
I could be on the moon and she in Australia etc and we are still together because of the invisible string that bonds us together. It is a special string that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and loved, it made her feel less alone.
And we still say it now ! Also good for sleepovers etc .
Good luck x

Leisurely bed time routine, with plenty of time to unwind, worked for us most nights.

I think it's important not to see it as a battle of wills, but helping him get enough sleep, which he won't if he's up half the night trying to make sure you stay in the room.

I also laughed at 'I'm a people person'. Maybe he is - but you need to be able to get to sleep on your own!

Loads of great advice here. I'd totally second the idea of making the run up to bedtime very wonderful, and very much an agreed routine, but then once goodnight has been said and you've left the room (however far that is), be absolutely cold and firm about getting him back to bed. No more cuddles and kisses - it has to be, "I've said goodnight, it's time to sleep, get back into bed now please. Right, good night!" (and out of the room). I think if you fall into the trap of starting the whole cuddle routine again, you'll never get out of it.
I'd also agree with the PP who said about asserting your authority in other contexts.
Good luck OP - it's an exhausting time of day (I regularly used to fall asleep while reading to DCs, they would nudge me awake to read the next page) so it's really easy to feel crap about it.

DD is 5 and still needs me to sit/lay down on the bed next to her in order to go to sleep. She has usually nodded off within about 15 minutes.

Does it take your DS an extremely long time to fall asleep? If not, why is staying with him such a problem that you need guidance from a 'tough mum'? He is 6. Still tiny in my opinion and perfectly normal to want mum at bed-time.

The advice you've been given re. leaving and re-entering the room, arranging toys, prizes, longwinded explanations as to why he mustn't be scared etc all sound unnecessary, tiring and stressful to me. This phase won't last forever. He'll grow out of it at some point so why not just roll with it for now.

I find the general MN approach to children's bedtimes quite odd generally though. Before joining MN I'd never heard of school aged children being routinely sent to bed as early as 6.30pm but apparently this is completely the norm.

Sympathy OP...we got ‘it’s not fair, you get to cuddle Daddy at night but I don’t have anyone’ which was slightly difficult to refute.

We’ve found that promising to check in 5 minutes (and doing so by sticking my head around the door) is a happy medium when this happens. It often turns out (for us) that there’s actually something from the day bothering him and if we sort that (hurray for him being young enough to have small problems) then he can sleep soundly.

I was a tough mum but can't really help as I was tough a lot earlier. At 6 mine were happy to have a story downstairs after milk and teeth brushing and then upstairs for pee and into bed. At 6 they could read well enough to have 15 minutes personal reading time then cuddles and lights out. Mine loved their bed though so that probably made it a lot easier.

I think you probably just need to change the routine so it doesn't seem as obvious that stuff is missing.

@peta11 hands down the best parenting advice I’ve ever heard, will be using this as soon as ds grows old enough to appreciate it

I hope to bump into you on other parenting tip threads!

In every other aspect of life, I am tough mum, absolutely tough mum personified and trebled. I take no shit.............

That is until it comes to bed time, then I melt into marshmallow and I don't give a shit who knows it.

The DC go to their beds, DP and I go to ours. Where people end up by morning is anyones guess and I don't care.

We have done 'controlled crying' we have done supernanny sitting in the room and gradually sitting further and further out.

I no longer care. We all get sleep. Now it is more often that they are in their beds and we are in ours. Great. I know they when they go elsewhere they are fine DD goes away with Air Cadets (yes, she is 13) and stays awake with the rest of her dorm and gets up ok too.

DS (age 12) goes for sleep overs at friends and is fine.

Sometimes they are awake later than DP and I. As long as they stay in their rooms, it's ok.

Sorry, this is the one thing where I am a total slack arse, but it is ok! It has finally worked out.

I'm sure someone less slack arse than me will give actual advice though!

One thing that we used to use was a ‘kiss box’. It started when we were going to be away for two nights and DC were worried about being kissed good night - what if Granny’s kisses weren’t enough? We got a little box for each of them, filled it with kisses (by repeatedly kissing the open box) and then they could just open it a tiny crack to get kisses out whenever they needed them.

Over time this developed - the little cardboard boxes were replaced with more ornamental ones. These new bigger boxes could accomodate hugs as well as kisses. They could also be refilled up by phone if supplies ran low. My mum told me that there was once an argument when one sibling accused the other of sneaking kisses out of their box, luckily Mum was able to check the kiss level and it was still very full.

Try something like that maybe?

When mine were younger, one of their stuffed toys was put in charge of protection if Mum or dad weren't in the room. We just used to pop in for a cuddle and kiss and to put lights out and last comment was always to said toy - "right (big blue bear/sparkles-tangerine etc) you are in charge now so look after (Ds1/Ds2) tonight please".

God I'm not a tough mum, I'm clearly a horrid mum! Once the lovely bedtime routine was done, unless she had a bad dream, threw up, peed herself or her hair caught fire, she was whooshed back to bed instantly. Story, kisses, loveliness, lights out. Job done in 20 mins tops. I do not respond well to a child fucking about post bedtime without good reason.

Only my youngest needed me to be with him until he fell asleep. I stayed with him until he fell asleep. It was never more than 20 minutes or so, and putting things aside for such a short period didn’t impact me. Then one day, it just stopped. I miss those times now.

Stick earphones in to block out the shrillest whining and gently guide him back to bed each time with 'it's time for sleeping now, I have to put the washing machine on, sweep the floor, etc, etc' and when he stays in there, pop your head in 'Good boy, quick kiss, now I need to unload the dishwasher so we can have breakfast in the morning', etc, etc.

DSD was a stay, stay, drink of water, need to tell you something, etc, etc, repeatedly all evening and night. Her Mum was at her wit's end, kept the baby gate on and would shout at her with lack of sleep. I worked out that the lights in the bedroom were keeping her awake/stopping her from getting back to sleep, so turned them all off before she was actually asleep. I left the landing light on for ten minutes and then turned that off, too. She slept until 7am by the third night - the most I did when DP was getting uncharacteristically tetchy because he was ill, was give DP the headphones, told him I'd deal with it and said gently but clearly 'No. It's sleeptime now. We're all here, Daddy's sleeping, I'm tired, the cats are sleeping and you need to sleep now' - she whimpered for a whole three minutes before falling asleep.

You don't have to be 'tough', you need to be calm but firm, even in the face of histrionics and emotional blackmail.

Mind you, once the FluffyTwatCat decided she quite liked DSD, the problem solved itself permanently, as the pair of them would plod up the stairs quite happily after that - the cat knowing she was going to sleep rather than fidget and moan probably meant she chose to stay rather than avoid her.

Do you have a DH or DP? What is his role in all this?

I tend to agree with the posters who say your DS is manipulating you, he is clearly old enough to understand that it is bedtime but he is very clever in emotionally guilt tripping you.

Does he ever go on sleepovers or stay with relatives?

Try going straight out at bedtime (obviously assuming you have a DH/DP), explain that you are going out, try and meet a friend or do something nice for yourself if only a walk.

Great thread with great advice that I’m going to pinch for my 2yo

Finally, there may be an end to our nightly misery! Bloody good luck OP, you have my utmost sympathies as my child sounds exactly like yours

We had a similar discussion recently about an 8yo girl wanting her mum to sit there in the bedroom.

What I said to the mum was: If it helps you to be tougher, think of this in terms of "opportunity cost".

If you are sitting there in the bedroom wasting time every evening, it means chores and life admin build up and don't get sorted out. Then the weekend gets spent sorting stuff out rather than going out and having great experiences etc. That's not fun for your kid either.

Talk to him about this firmly, and make it clear that he needs to start going to sleep by himself. As others have said, use audio books (we found this helpful) and do a gradual retreat over several days--do chores like paperwork or laundry-folding in the room with him for a day or two, then do it in the doorway, then in the hall outside with the door open, then a bit further away and close the door a bit more and so on.

Ignore Facebook etc. memes that make you feel guilty for not wanting to spend every second with your children and THEY ARE ONLY LITTLE ONCE and all that crap. If you feel resentful and angry and things don't get done in the house, it will negatively impact your family time at weekends and holidays and make it hard to spend quality time together. Be firm! If they are "only little once," surely that's all the more reason to make sure that you have fun and positive experiences with children, not feeling resentful at them the whole time.

And be kind to yourself. It's easy to get into this trap and it doesn't mean that you're weak or disorganized! We all hover over our kids when they are tiny with good reason--moving away from that as they get bigger is hard for all of us!

Thankyou @mummoomoocow .
It's helped me and my daughters many times over the years!