Just a reminder- you can’t ban abortion..

[BertrandRussell]

...you can only ban safe abortion.

“Are you saying that the 24 week limit in the UK is not enough? Do you often hear of women dying in back alley abortions here?“

No you don’t. Because the number of late abortions is vanishingly small, and of that small number, the majority are for reasons that anybody except the most hard line forced birther would understand.

Yet there is no time limit on abortion in New Mexico and you’re fairly familiar with that?

In NM you still can’t just rock up to a clinic and demand an abortion for any reason at any time. There are regulations on the procedure, just not gestational limits.

Are you saying that the 24 week limit in the UK is not enough? Do you often hear of women dying in back alley abortions here?

You don't need women to 'often' be dying in back alley abortions, or committing suicide because they can't access abortion to think that it's an unacceptable position to force even one woman into. I would indeed support the 24 week limit (which is entirely arbitrary anyway) being removed. I am also confident that if it were removed there would be no discernible increase in late-term abortion: there isn't some big pool of women out there who just really fancy carrying well into the second trimester and then terminating just for the hell of it. If a woman feels she is a position where such a difficult procedure is the best option then I'm inclined to believe her.

No you don’t. Because the number of late abortions is vanishingly small, and of that small number, the majority are for reasons that anybody except the most hard line forced birther would understand

Great. So we don’t actually need to change the UK’s abortion laws. So can we finally put to rest that dumb, divisive and ultimately meaningless slogan?

We know the real problem is access anyways.

“Great. So we don’t actually need to change the UK’s abortion laws. So can we finally put to rest that dumb, divisive and ultimately meaningless slogan?”

No. Because at the risk of upsetting you with another slogan- the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Hard won rights are easily lost.

*the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Hard won rights are easily lost.

Lmao. Gun nutters in the US say much the same thing.

there isn't some big pool of women out there who just really fancy carrying well into the second trimester

FWIW I don’t think so either. I just don’t think those decisions should be entirely left to individual doctors. Medical boards in practice should be enough, but laws based on fetal viability is probably the sweet spot. I can’t imagine fetal viability changing drastically in the near future either.

Glad you find the rolling back of abortion rights in America so funny

“ I just don’t think those decisions should be entirely left to individual doctors.”
Neither do I. I think they should be entirely left to the individual woman concerned.

Friend had her dc at 21 weeks. Drs refused to do anything as they said he wouldn’t survive.

He survived. Then they said he wouldn’t survive 24 hours.
He survived. All the time she was screaming for someone to help him and the mid wives were saying not to love him as he wouldn’t survive.

But survive he did. He is now a strapping teenager.

All those saying as late as possible would that mean at 22 weeks or 36 weeks or 40 weeks. Where do you draw the line between abortion and murder

“Friend had her dc at 21 weeks.”

The youngest baby ever to survive was nearly 22 weeks, and there are very few who survive under 24 weeks. Even fewer who survive healthy and well. Are you sure you’re not quoting s not of propaganda?

Friend had her dc at 21 weeks. Drs refused to do anything as they said he wouldn’t survive.

Yeah- that actually didn’t happen.

The youngest baby ever to survive was nearly 22 weeks

So 21 weeks.

I'm trying to wade through the debate on twitter but seeing the words 'pregnant person' over and over again (even by the centre for reproductive rights...) is making me want to tear my hair out.

Alabama has signed away what was left of women's rights to a group of men. It's utterly abhorrent.

A woman is not going to terminate her pregnancy without a good reason for doing so, whether someone else thinks it's a good reason is irrelevant.
Pain, sickness, diarrhoea, bleeding and all of the other hideous side effects are not taken lightly - neither is a surgical management.
Placing the rights of a pregnancy over those of the woman carrying it (reducing her to nothing more than a vessel) is setting a dangerous precedent.

I agree with a PP. Women of America should refuse to have sex with any fertile man unless it is purely to reproduce.
I hate stereotyping - but with men like this, cutting them off at the source and doing the one thing women can do to retain their power in this situation will be the only way to bring how fucking abysmal this situation is front and centre.

oliversmummy you’ve been caught out. Back down gracefully.

@Oliversmumsarmy Oh leave it out.

My DD was born 7 weeks early and without the immediate and intensive medical treatment she received, would've died very shortly after birth.
Purely because her lungs weren't strong enough for her to breathe unassisted.

And you're seriously posting that a 21 weeker (determined as a non-viable pregnancy) was able to survive totally unassisted?
A pregnancy just over the half way mark had absolutely no complications and was able to cling to life?

Out of curiosity, what's your stance on abortion?

I know he spent a year in hospital and he was born without lungs, they hadn’t developed yet.

But my question still stands how late would be acceptable to have an abortion.

Would it be acceptable to demand an abortion when in labour?

Sorry Oliver’smummy, are you claiming your friend had the most premature baby in the world? A quick google shows it was in Canada in 1987 at 21w and 5d. Not a teenager

Born without lungs... survived without medical intervention... okay.

My question stands also. What is your stance on abortion?

The VAST majority of terminations take place early in pregnancy. Ones that are done later are generally for very compelling reasons. Women should be trusted to make that decision.

If only we could improve society to a point where all women had easy access to free, reliable contraception, MAP and early abortion. If we supported DV victims appropriately and dealt with the abusers. If we improved our benefits and health care systems so women who wanted to continue a pregnancy could do so.

Are you talking about the UK?

Sorry, oliversmummy- tgat is simply not true.

A baby born at 21 weeks, that survives unaided for 24hrs?!! Are you having a laugh?

There's lies and then there's great big huge whoppers that Donald Trump himself would be proud of. This is the latter.

If your mate really does say their baby was born at 21 weeks, I think you should be recommending to the father that he gets a DNA test, cos that baby was a lot older than she's admiting.

But let's be honest here, this is a bullshit pro-life propaganda trope designed to scare woman and designed to villianise them and you know this and are pretending it's real cos you have a problem with abortion.

Can we cut the crap and just admit your political position please cos it's not exactly rocket science to work out.

I do hope that the women of Georgia Alabama and Ohio make a mass exodus to neighbouring states.
That's the only thing these men will listen too if half the population ups and leaves. In georgia and alabama these laws won't come in for a year so plenty of time to plan a move

The youngest baby ever to survive was nearly 22 weeks

So 21 weeks.

Had this discussion with a hard-line anti-Choice supporter on an AIBU thread who insisted viability is at 20 weeks – it isn’t – as for 22 it depends on what you consider a successful birth!:

”What are the health outcomes for extremely preterm babies?

Medical advances have helped some preterm babies survive and overcome health challenges. However, the chances that a baby born extremely early will survive without disability are still small. With very rare exceptions, babies born before 23 weeks of pregnancy do not survive. Although survival rates increase for babies born between 23 weeks and 25 weeks of pregnancy, most survivors face serious, often lifelong disabilities.

www.acog.org/Patients/FAQs/Extremely-Preterm-Birth?IsMobileSet=false

And the “mother screaming for help for her massively pre term baby while HCPs ignore her” story has been around for years and years.

Are you talking about the UK?

Only if posters have forgotten about Northern Ireland (NI)!

Unlike the rest of the UK – and hopefully soon Ireland – women in Northern Ireland still cannot access abortion care in their own country. The 1861 Offences Against the Person Act made it illegal for any women to cause their own abortion, and could carry a sentence of life imprisonment. The Abortion Act 1967 that created exemptions for women in England and Wales was never applied in Northern Ireland, meaning women there still face criminal sanctions if they choose to end their pregnancy.

Every day, three Northern Irish women either travel abroad to access treatment or buy illegal abortion pills online – risking life imprisonment.

The Republic of Ireland’s law is finally changing. The time is now for Northern Ireland. #NowForNI

If you would like to learn more and take action to help change this
www.bpas.org/get-involved/northern-ireland-campaign/