Has anyone successfully helped a hoarder?

[Frouby]

My fil is mid 70s, not in the best of health, had 2 strokes, walks with a stick or uses a mobility scooter. Mil died 10 years ago and he has a new partner.

New partner is a lovely woman. Scatty but nice. She lives with fil in his council bungalow, but owns her own property 15 miles away. Neither of them drives.

They have been together about 5 years.

Fil is a selfish bugger, and I am low contact with him. Dh generally sees him every few months, I see him once a year at Christmas generally. No big arguements between me and fil, he has done a few pretty rotten things to dh in the past, so I keep my distance to save an arguement.

I tend to speak to fil when he wants some admin type official thing doing. Am fine with that, hes an old man and dhs dad, it's a couple of times a year. Yesterday he called and asked me to help him get a walk in shower fitted via the council. Sorted that out then he phoned back and is worried about the council coming to assess the property.

His partner is a hoarder, we knew this. Her own property is uninhabitable because of the hoarding. Not my problem to solve.

However, fil says she has now completely filled the spare room at his bungalow, and has started piling stuff up in their bedroom. Last time I went at Christmas it was very cluttered, every side filled, she had to move stuff off the sofa for us all to sit down, kitchen sides all junked up.

Fil has asked me to help him sort it out. He doesn't want to live like this and wants to empty the spare room and all the clutter. Hes asked her to stop, but she wont. Or can't.

Is there any way I can help them? She is in her 70s as well. And I am also concerned that if fil dies, or ends up in permanent residential care, that she won't be able to stay in the bungalow as she owns another property. She will have a fuckton of stuff, no transport, and no where to transport it to.

We don't have time to go through all this for her. We could do a few tip/charity shop runs. But even if we did have the time, I can't see her parting with this stuff easily.

Would this be worth a referral to adult ss? Am worried about fils mobility and all this stuff has got to be a fire risk. But I don't know if they would A. Get involved and B. Be able to tell adults to clean up.

She has 2 dcs I believe but they must be in their 50s and don't live locally. I don't know if they are aware of the issues their mum has either. Fil also has a dd, but she has been no contact for a number of years, which I can understand.

Is there anything I can do?

Could someone take FIL out for the day and you go into the bungalow and have a stern word with her? Take boxes and help her.

It's not her house but your elderly FIL has clearly not felt up to sorting this out.

Hoarders are mentally ill...and the hoarding makes them feel secure so you may find she fights you on it.

One approach could be to insist the things are put in boxes "For now" and then neatly stacked and labelled.

Let FIL know this is temporary...then the week after, remove the boxes to her own property.

My brother was a hoarder. Over a period of years I had his flat cleared 3 times (which in itself was difficult as everything was 'precious' and 'needed' to be kept.)
Then the day came where he had to go to hospital, and they wouldn't let him return home because his flat wasn't suitable for human habitation. I refused to step up again as it was affecting my mental health. It was passed to social services. His flat was cleared again without him being present (I never heard the end of that) and cleaners were supplied by the local authority.
His mental health had always been bad, but he had developed cancer as well, which killed him within 18 months. He was only 49. When he died I had to get the flat cleared again (which took the total cost of various clearances to nearly 3k). It wasn't as bad as it had been, but it was mostly car boot/junk shop/street finds that were building up again.
So no, to answer your question, whatever you do, the mess will re-appear. It's a very difficult mental problem. It is also dangerous (he was always falling/tripping amongst his junk) and becomes a major problem if the person has to go to hospital. In my case, social services would not have been interested if he hadn't developed terminal cancer - they tried their hardest to get me to deal with everything, (even suggesting he came to live with me!) but I had to be quite clear I was no longer going to do any physical work in his flat.
Try social services, you've got nothing to lose, but dealing with a hoarder is virtually impossible.

longeared that's my worry, that we will clear it and she will simply replace it. It will cause a lot of stress to her I think and a lot of upset. And I can see fil asking me to help, then when push comes to shove, backing her rather than us.

We don't have the best relationship. He's very old fashioned, women in their place blah blah blah. He also has his own addictions (gambling mainly but I also think he is a functional alcoholic) and we had problems in the past with him asking to borrow money. Which I put a stop to and it took him 2 years to speak to me again.

As much as I want to help, I don't think I can. And I don't particularly want to if I am completely honest. I know I should because he is family and dhs dad and so on. And because hes old and vulnerable. But out of the pair of them I much prefer his partner.

I might ring the council and speak to them and see if they can help, maybe with an assessment on general living conditions when they assess for the shower and then use that as a reason to get rid of some junk. Let her bag it up and we will go up once a week and do a tip/charity shop run.

Agree with @longearedbat, the hoarding will always come back. Unless the underlying mental health issues are treated but even then I don’t know how successful it is. It’s such a sad situation. I had my eyes opened to it when I tried to help a neighbour at her request but she built it up again and again.

I think realistically all you can is SS and ask them to assess things. I think offering to take what they box up each week is actually a good idea as it will be gradually and not a sudden change.

I wonder if she's filled up her own house?

@PurpleCrazyHorse

The op said her own house is uninhabitable due to hoarding.

Oops missed that, but really not surprised!

Yes own house is apparently full to bursting and am sure fil mentioned something about rats in there yesterday.

But while she is a nice enough woman, it's not really my problem what her own house is like, that's for her own family to deal with.

Am going up on Sunday to have a look. It was bad at Christmas when I went so god knows what state it will be in now. My poor mil would be spinning in her grave.

Or maybe laughing that fil is now living with the consequences of someone else's addictive behaviour.

I am going to refer to adult social services I think and offer once a week to go and collect stuff, but they both need to make a real effort otherwise I am not wasting my time. It's always been a waste of time and effort to get fil to stop gambling (hence my low contact) and we are so busy at the moment I am very reluctant to spend every sunday morning doing an hours round trip to collect someone elses junk if they are just going to replace it the next day.

Hoarding is a recognised mental health disorder and certainly it is not helpful to ‘have a stern word with’ the person or worse go in and throw out all their stuff! You need to get in touch with whatever services in their area - GP first step. She will need counselling. It’s a process.

I would encourage your father in law to get her to move out. It’s going to get a whole lot worse and his health will be severely compromised as there will be trip hazards, fire hazards, not be able to store food properly or have access to cook it. Not be able to wash properly if access is restricted. Limited or no visitors. Insects and possibly rats. Breathing problems of dust accumulated. Etc etc

Does he want to end his days buried alive in someone else’s crap? That’s what it boils down to.

Thing is though she is 70 odd years old, as is fil. If she has had no inclination to seek help for her behaviour before, shes not going to now.

Shes quite independent and fiesty, takes herself off abroad with the 'girls' regularly, gets about all over on the bus and is probably a lot fitter than fil. I can't see her taking herself off to the gp because gobby dil of her partner pops up and says that's what she needs to do. If it were my mum then I could be more forceful but I have only met this woman maybe 10 times due to low contact with fil.

I genuinely don't think I can help them. Fil won't ask her to leave. To be fair to her she cooks for him and runs around after him amd leaves him to gamble and drink so apart from the hoarding he's as happy as a pig in shit.

It absolutely will get worse I know that, it's getting worse every time he goes according to dh.

I think adult ss to come in and assess is the only thing I can do really. And maybe clear the bedroom to the spare room, if their is space so he is safe to walk around the bed.

It's so sad really. Fil and mil moved to the bungalow when mil was ill and she was so excited and had it beautiful. She's been dead 10 years and I don't think it's been decorated since.

Maybe if I offer to redecorate it will spur them on? But I doubt it.

I am going to have a stern word with them both on Sunday. It probably won't help but it might slow down the buying stuff. And at least I will have given her the opportunity to reassess what she is doing.

Obviously I am concerned about them both now, but am also really worried about having to clear it all if fil dies or goes into care. I have no problem hiring skips and just gutting it, but presume fils stuff is mingled in, plus late mils plus important paperwork and family photos etc.

Plus there is still the issue of where she will go. And they have a cat they rescued, it was a stray she started feeding. I can't have a cat, am violently allergic to them and have a cat hating whippet.

I suppose I should be glad it's stuff she hoards and not cats really. Fml.

There is not a single thing you can , and this woman will never change. The only solution to this problem is for your FIL to kick her out and end the relationship. Personally, I would encourage this because she is going to destroy that property and then you'll be left with a disaster on your hands.

I'm a level 1 hoarder (along with some other MH issues) and I'd say it's really hard, you have my sympathies. If I hadn't made a huge effort myself to get better I would have never gotten better. Feel free to DM me if you want.

Hoarding Levels: www.aftermath.com/content/hoarding-levels/

She will never see or understand the problem. Fifty years ago she might have sought help but not now.

www.squalorsurvivors.com/supporters/index.shtml

Thanks vanellope.

Have just come off the phone to SS. Not a thing they can do without consent from FIL. Because partner is not on tenancy and is registered as living in a different town, nothing they can do for her.

According to SS whilever they both still have capacity and fil is allowing her to do it, there is nothing they can do. Occupational Therapy will be out within 16 weeks for an assessment for walk in shower, they may make some recommendations but that's all they are.

Fil needs to either stop her doing it, or ask her to leave.

What a bloody mess.

Many hoarders in my family. My advice is to do NOTHING, say nothing.

DH knows his dad better than you. He can pick up the phone to services if he wants to and if he thinks it could end well.

You are nice but this is not your problem to fix. You cannot fix it. Step very very far back. I'd go so far as not even discussing it with DH unless he raises it and even then responding like "what do you think?" "What would happen?" "What will you do?" "Oh dear" "that's so sad" "that must be so frustrating for you" "do you need a hug?"

You can't help - my sister is a hoarder and it doesn't matter what you do, the person will continue to hoard until the house is uninhabitable. Your FIL needs to throw her out - if he can't or won't, social services need to go in .

My mother is a hoarder. Between level 2 and 3. She went into hospital for a few weeks and I spent every waking hour emptying and cleaning her large house. Some of the stuff I found was unbelievable. Fresh food (rancid when I found it) stuffed under chair seats etc., but that was because she didn't want to share her goodies with anyone. It was also filthy.
She came home and was happy with her clean beautiful home......and started hoarding again.
She spills things on the floor and instead of cleaning up she throws a mat or rug on top of the spillage. The kitchen has so many mats stuck together it's ridiculous. No one is allowed to touch them.
Can hoarders change? I don't think so. It is horrible for their family as hoarding is much more important than anything.

My posy above may sound harsh but bitter experience tells me the only outcome of any other approach will be pain, anger and frustration for you. Serious mental health downsides for you.

Also for problematic for DH if you get all "we must dooooo something". With a dad like that he has most likely resigned himself long ago to being powerless to change his dad and to his dad having grim final years as a result of his life choices. I bet he's emotionally detached from his father. Don't drag him back into that pit of poor mental health that is created by trying to change his father's life.

You struggle with seeing his father reap what he has sown. That's your problem not anyone else's problem.

I know that seems harsh but it is true. The sooner the better for you to realise any interventions you make are about soothing your own conscience. Interventions will likely cause trouble to gain nothing that FIL and DH want (possibly even worsening the situation). It's shit I know.

From my personal experience I would agree with PP. I came to a point where I wanted and sought help with the underlying issue (childhood trauma). Before that point (wanting to get better for my young children) nothing or nobody could have convinced me I don't think. As a mental illness/addiction I'd say it's right up there with some of the hardest ones. I could talk about this all day ... sorry!

I would say nothing, keep out of it. Hoarders don't change, a lot of them have suffered a loss and actually cannot stop.

It's awful for the family of hoarders and also embarrassing, because you worry others will think you don't care.

If it was me, i would Stay well back, don't clean anything, just look after your own house. Best of luck.

Can her house be reported to environmental health? Rats and a building going rotten isn't good for anyone.