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Jilly Cooper

103 replies

LaMarschallin · 05/05/2019 13:54

I hope I'm not doing a TAAT. There's a thread about Rupert Campbell-Black on AIBU but I had thought for a while about starting a general Jilly Cooper thread and don't want to ask if I'm BU, hence posting on Chat. I certainly don't mean to BU; please tell me if I am.
I'm at a loose end today as Mr LaM is off doing one of those madly outing hobbies (he's playing chess. I'll put the kettle on for all the stalkers who are bound to charge up**).
I come really, really not to bury Jilly but not to totally praise her either (pace Shakespeare).
I love her books. They are my comfort reading (along with Eva Ibbotson) and I swear I could romp home with the works of JC as a specialist subject on Mastermind (I'd obviously flunk general knowledge). I have had to re-buy three of her books because they fell apart.
And yet, and yet...

She gets away with bloody murder! She's racist, sexist, classist (is that a thing?) and - even worse from my point of view - she's repetitive. For an author that's not good.
She comes up with the same phrases. Eg: "threw up and up and up"; "hit him across the room/parking lot/whatever"; "drenched herself in scent"; "stank like a polecat" etc

When it comes to breastfeeding everything who does it will "whip out a triangular grey tit" and stuff it in their revolting offspring's mouth. Unless they're Janey who's been on holiday and has such lovely suntanned breasts that nobody minds her breastfeeding. Luckily Taggie's breasts didn't drop because she'd never fed a baby.*

The lower classes are fine if they:
a) stay in their place and make amusing malapropisms: "Let's get up a partition!"
b) make a lot of money but keep their hilarious regional accents: "Grite, grite! That 'elps a lot".
If they dare ape their betters they are ghastly, talk "ever so posh laike that" and ask for "a portion of that delicious gateau" and tell dukes they would be "delayted to receive them in their gracious 'ome". And always - if female - wear shirtwaister dresses.

I know! I'm over invested. I should stop reading her if I think all these things.
I enjoy her books. I'm surprised she's hardly ever called out in interviews about her dated views but - hell yes! - I wish was as rich and successful and well-connected.

I just want a gossip. Anybody else?

*I have wondered if this is JC trying to cheer herself up because she couldn't give birth to children; I know she has two children and it sounds as though that's been a great success but maybe occasionally she thinks, "Well, at least I kept my figure".

**Just decided on previewing to change "charge up" to "rock up". Another Jilly-ism.

OP posts:
OnlineAlienator · 05/05/2019 13:58

I dont know if its correct to call jilly racist, classist etc - her characters are. Writers should be allowed to portray negative traits, right? It would ruin a fair few stories if they werent!

I respect her apparent opinions on childbirth and grey tits, not everyone has to be beholden to the miracle.

elessar · 05/05/2019 13:59

Oh I'm totally with you, I love her books and reread them all the time (the older ones more than the latest couple) but yes they're pretty appalling from that point of view.

Also anyone who weighs over 9stone is fat, and it's totally acceptable to have multiple affairs, especially if you're charming and good looking.

SneakyGremlins · 05/05/2019 14:01

I've never read any of her books but this was very entertaining to read Grin

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

ControversialFerret · 05/05/2019 14:01

YANBU. I love Jilly - the books are clever, witty and so readable.

But the older ones are very much a product of their time - a case in point being the name of one of Ricky's ponies in Polo.

The newer ones aren't as good though. Jump! particularly annoyed me. Far too many nicknames and Etta was so wet as to be untrue. All of the characterisation that was so good about her books has turned into a parody as it's so OTT. Don't get me started on Mount!...

LaMarschallin · 05/05/2019 14:05

OnlineAlienator

I dont know if its correct to call jilly racist, classist etc - her characters are. Writers should be allowed to portray negative traits, right? It would ruin a fair few stories if they werent!

Fair point about her fiction. Have you read any of her non-fiction?

I respect her apparent opinions on childbirth and grey tits, not everyone has to be beholden to the miracle.

Absolutely. I have children and breast fed them but was never what she would call a "militant" breastfeeder (I couldn't let down if I wasn't alone).
I'm just surprised how many people who you think would call her out on that don't and it does get repetitive.

OP posts:
Mammatino · 05/05/2019 14:06

Yep am with you, love her books to bits and often quote with my mum. Yes I agree they are very stuck in their world, super sexist, high flying women are ball breakers. In fact I think everyone is a stereotype, from the hairy eco friendly brigade that all smell to the uptight social climbers.

Still love them though.

LaMarschallin · 05/05/2019 14:07

SneakyGremlins

I've never read any of her books but this was very entertaining to read grin

Thank you! And that totally is what this thread is meant to be.

OP posts:
justasking111 · 05/05/2019 14:08

They are a product of their time and hers. Sidney Sheldon books, James Bond, I could go on and on....

ChessieFL · 05/05/2019 14:09

Another one who loves Jilly but I agree with everything you say about her books!

Crinkle77 · 05/05/2019 14:18

I used to live reading Jilly Cooper and when I got a new book would flick through and look for the sex scenes. They were so saucy can't really remember much else about them though.

LaMarschallin · 05/05/2019 14:20

@ChessieFL

Another one who loves Jilly but I agree with everything you say about her books!

Well, you would, wouldn't you, you Diorissimo drenched bee-yatch, back-stroking naked in Bart's pool then cooking the most fragrant goose infused with truffles* for Christmas dinner.

Ricky's father pronounced them "truefles"*

**Tragic, isn't it? Told you. Specialist subject.

OP posts:
OnlineAlienator · 05/05/2019 14:41

Fair point about her fiction. Have you read any of her non-fiction

No, wasnt aware there was any tbh! Hoping she doesnt mention any real live triangular grey tits! Confused

LaMarschallin · 05/05/2019 15:11

@OnlineAlienator

No, wasnt aware there was any tbh! Hoping she doesnt mention any real live triangular grey tits!

Not verbatim. However in "Class" (imo very well researched; doesn't mean the conclusions are right) she says:

"Breast-feeding in public is indulged in by left-wing trendies, and surprisingly by Jen Teale* who will even whip out a tit in the middle of a christening sending uncles, grandfathers and male godparents fainting into the garden."

She doesn't mention grey or triangular here, to be fair. However it doesn't sound like an endorsement.

*Her stereotype of a lower middle class woman.

OP posts:
LaMarschallin · 05/05/2019 15:31

I would also throw this open as a competition to anyone who can give an example of JC giving a positive example of BFing (apart from Janey, which I've already given).
Prize determined by me.

Goddsake though! I just meant this as a bit of fun not a statement on behalf of La Leche League. That was a by-the-by.

Okay. Different subject.
I've tried brushing my teeth, slapping on some base and ringing my eyes with eyeliner. This should render me irresistable to men.

What am I doing wrong?

Is it the lack of crash dieting and having highlights?

OP posts:
RubberTreePlant · 05/05/2019 15:39

The lower classes are fine if they:
a) stay in their place and make amusing malapropisms: "Let's get up a partition!"
b) make a lot of money but keep theirhilarious regional accents: "Grite, grite! That 'elps a lot".

Exactly the same reason I can't tolerate The Archers.

The cattiness about breastfeeding doesn't take advanced amateur (Confused) psychoanalysis skilled to crack when you consider her family situation. She obviously retained some issues there.

SomewhereNow · 05/05/2019 15:42

Which of Ricky’s horses? I can’t think 🤔

RubberTreePlant · 05/05/2019 15:42

I'm just surprised how many people who you think would call her out on that don't and it does get repetitive.

Writers of middling talent who write thinly veiled versions of themselves and their own lives often do this (Dick Francis and Patricia Cornwell both spring immediately to mind, somewhat randomly). They put themselves, their traits, their phrases, their attitudes, into their characters and they overdo it because they lack objectivity about themselves.

LaMarschallin · 05/05/2019 15:57

RubberTreePlant

The lower classes are fine if they:
a) stay in their place and make amusing malapropisms: "Let's get up a partition!"
b) make a lot of money but keep theirhilarious regional accents: "Grite, grite! That 'elps a lot"

Exactly the same reason I can't tolerate The Archers.

Excellent point, RTP. Wayne (her stereotypical lower middle class 20-30 year old) is right up that stereotypical street:

"Wayne... doesn't resort to insults and backchat like the working classes, but his conversation is arch, and rather hearty with an air of continual interrogation,* rather like Bob Dale or the non-yokels in The Archers.

  • Sounds like nowadays students: "So, I'm a student? In ? At ?
OP posts:
RubberTreePlant · 05/05/2019 16:02

I've never actually read any JC. I'm not sure whether you're putting me right off forever, or whether nosiness will get the better of me after these descriptions. Sounds possibly in the "so bad, it's good" category.Smile

LaMarschallin · 05/05/2019 16:04

Oh dear though.

I meant this to be fun.

Last ditch attempt:

If you were a JC character what scent (not perfume) would you wear?

And a quiz:

Match the character to the scent:

Fracas
Diorissimo
Penhaligon's Bluebells
Arpege
Maestro

OP posts:
CaptainBrickbeard · 05/05/2019 16:09

Same! Appassionata is my favourite; I love it. But I do feel bad for enjoying them so much when there is a lot wrong with them! I can’t stand the portrayal of Kitty who is still described as fat even when she gets slimmed down to 8 stone something by Lysander.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 05/05/2019 16:10

Oh fuck, I wear Bluebell and I come from the Cotswolds. Who does that make me?

I totally agree with you about JC. I love the Rutshire books but I'm not entirely sure Jolly and I would see eye to eye if we ever met.

waterandlemonjuice · 05/05/2019 16:14

Fracas - “sharp, sexy scent” = Cameron Cook
Diorissimo - loads of Jilly heroines but I think Chessie France-Lynch?
Penhaligon's Bluebells - ?
Arpege - I think Janey
Maestro - easy, Ranaldini!

waterandlemonjuice · 05/05/2019 16:15

I ❤️❤️❤️❤️ Jilly btw but of course the books are of their time. Obviously.

waterandlemonjuice · 05/05/2019 16:16

Arpege might be Helen Campbell-Black come to think of it