Would your work pay for this? AIBU thinking they would?

[Quickthrowaway]

I’ve been told I need to go on a training course/conference. Really short notice. Full day 9am-4.30, paid for by work.

However....it is a 6 hour drive or a 4.30 hr train journey away. Meaning I need to be leaving around 2/3/4am in the morning and then the same on the way home.

They will not pay for a hotel the night before and it’s expected I will drive and claim back mileage. Should say it is a public sector job. AIBU to think they would pay for accommodation the night before?

You must have an 11 hour break each day, European Working Time Directive, god bless the EU.
Would have had a hotel & breakfast paid and been paid travel time (but not the overnight).

Look at union/ACAS if you can't persuade them

I simply wouldn't go. I'd say either they paid for a hotel overnight or I would not attend as the request is highly unreasonable.

I'm public sector. They would always give us a hotel due to the safety angle. Please refuse OP and if they get cross, complain and escalate. This is totally unfair and unsafe. It'll cost them a lot more than a hotel room if you crash through tiredness. Also agree with others - you won t learn anything if you're that tired.

I wouldn’t allow my staff to do that. We have an online hotel and travel booking system,so within reason, people just book what they need. I’m public sector.

I doubt my school would pay, but I have never been told to go that far for a course.

What’s the course? Where do you live?

Yes public sector would pay. Dh gets it paid if he needs to be there before 10am if just 2 hours away

Another NHS here. Yes we would absolutely get a paid for hotel (Travelodge, probably) the night before, and the mode of transport is our choice, although the organisation prefers to buy train tickets for us up front.

What you are being asked to do is dangerous.

Yes, they would.

A 12 hour drive there and back? Yes, you need a hotel the night before.

I would refuse to go if not.

OP ignore all those giving you lorry driver rules... as much as they're perfectly valid unless you're a lorry driver (& therefore would know them) you're not covered by them in the course of your employment.

However, it is absolutely unreasonable & unrealistic for your employer to expect you to start your day at 3:30 am & finish at approx 11pm (assuming no traffic issues).

For any course that starts at 9am that far away they should be providing as a minimum accommodation the night before.

As others have said speak to either your union rep or H&S advisor who should be able to give advice based on your sector.

Another public sector employee here who would get a hotel the night before paid for, and afterwards as well, if wanted, but many people would just want to get home the same day.

As it's a long day, and the train is quicker, I would recommend going by train, even if it costs more, as it will save time and you don't have to stay awake for a long drive. You could even work on the train a bit if you wanted, but it wouldn't be expected from my employer, but many people would, as it can be a useful chance to catch up on reading or email housekeeping etc.

Just to add that there and back in one day breaks our health and safety driving policy too. A lot of people ignore the policy if it suits them, because following it to the letter would mean we have to stay overnight virtually every week, but not to that extreme.

There is a chance your boss has not realised how far away the training course is (assuming you did not remind him when you spoke about accommodation).

I would point out that as the course is about 400 miles away, it would be unreasonable for you to get up at 0230 for an 0300 departure to arrive, breakfasted and ready to learn for 0830. Arrange overnight accommodation at both ends of the day and ensure you take work time to travel.

I would finish work on the day before and drive up, stay overnight then drive home after training finished.

If training is a Monday I would still drive up the evening before, stay overnight and drive home when training is finished.

I'd rarely get the train but that's because I would always stay the night before a 9am start more than three hours away

I haven’t RTFT but isn’t there some corporate responsibility to stop organisations putting employees and the public in dangerous driving situations. Did that ever come in?

I’m public sector- we would have a hotel before and we’re not authorised to drive more than 100 miles per day.

I’ve been asked to drive as it’s cheaper than the train. Although I can get a train if I “really need to”

I’m going in armed and firm this morning!

It is against the law to expect you to drive from 3am , attend a conference 9-4 and not to return until 8. That would be a minimum of a 15 hour day if you took a couple of unpaid breaks.

The EU working time directive clearly states ; rest of at least 11 hours in any 24 hours.

I work in public sector and my lm would never agree to us working a day with hours like that and would only allow it if we booked a hotel.

Driving is cheaper than the train ? ?Private mileage is 0.44 a mile in the Public sector. A 6 hr journey is at least 300 miles. Which will cost the employer £264 for a round trip !! What kind of idiot is he ? Can't find a train ticket on your corporate booking system for less than £264 return. ? Really?

I'm public sector and we're absolutely not allowed to drive unless there is no possible way to get there via public transport. No matter the cost, we have to go on public transport due to our eco-policy. Hotel for the night before would be suggested by my manager.

I can well believe that driving is cheaper than the train, even at 45 pence a mile. If I want a Leeds to London day return to arrive and leave for a working day, even booked in advance, it is about £250 and that's a two hour journey.

If the OP is doing something like London to Newcastle, which is still 'only' 3.5 hours, a return ticket is £320. Unless booked months in advance, and travelling outside peak hours on a restricted ticket, the train is extortionate.

But I still think that the OP, in the circumstances, should take the train, and stay overnight the day before, and her employer should accept this as the cost of the required business travel, done safely.

Just looked at this in practical terms. OP says a 6 hr drive. I am guessing London to Newcastle 5hr 50 so close enough. (NHS has large admin centre there - but if not then equivalent distance for a '6 he drive')... so..

OPs line manager is expecting her to get up at 2.30am drive to Newcastle, participate in a conference and then - at the height of rush hour- drive back to London. ? I hope he realises he is failing in his duty of care towards you and could be held personally liable for any accident you might have. ?
Your mileage claim for that trip will be over £230.
The train costs 70 return travelling up night before and retuning after the conference. Crown rate for decent hotel £80. Incl breakfast. Evening meal allowance £20. So £60 less than driving and safe ! Bonkers.

How are you getting on??

Nhs managers are a law into themselves.

I was on jury duty, doing 5 days mon to fri. My manager said I had to come in sat and sun to work on the ward.

I just told her to speak to HR.

Op no way should you be travelling that distance in a day, plus doing a course. Typical of the nhs though.

I would expect overnight accommodation they are breaching there duty of care by expecting you to drive that many hours in one day when you have training. Say no and tell them why.

Not sure how you'd get the train - you'd need to get one leaving at 4am or so and I don't think most train services run that early in the morning....

It's ridiculous. Refuse.