Why do people think some professional jobs like teachers/ midwives aren't paid well?

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I read a lot on here about people moaning about teacher/ nurse/ midwife wages etc. I thought in the NHS you start off on around 25k which I think is a decent wage. I've seen on MN alot of nurses and midwives earning £30/40k upwards.

I genuinely am wondering why people think that's low pay? What would they want as a reasonable salary? Am I not understanding something. This is a genuine question and I am in no way being goady.

I earn very low @17k so perhaps my perception is slightly skewed.

If your husband is a partner, even a non-equity one, that puts a rather different slant on things aragog. People reading should be aware that he's pretty senior, not at all typical and that there will be more solicitors on 35k doing things like care law and criminal law than salaried partners on six figures outside London.

@CrunchyMum I am a solicitor myself but have worked with hundreds of barristers in my career and not one of them has ever objected to being called a lawyer and, indeed, many would use the term themselves for example if we were talking to a client together they might say “of course, as lawyers we tend to interpret x in this way”. Look at the website of any major law firm and it will be littered with references to “our lawyers”. In fact, at high end firms it’s seen as a bit “high street” to call yourself a solicitor unless you are specifically distinguishing yourself from a barrister.
A final point just to complicate things- we and judges actually call barristers “Counsel” so they say to the judge “I am Counsel for the Defendant” not “I am the Defendant’s barrister” and we as solicitors would talk about getting “Counsel’s opinion” on a case or tricky point of law not “a Barrister’s opinion”. But I would say “my friend Tom is a Barrister”. All nonsense really.

The teaching pension may be good if you teach for 40 years full time. If you leave after 5 or are forced to go part time because the workload is having such a massively detrimental impact in your mental health, it really isn’t.

Another thing to consider in teaching is that the many part time/job sharing teachers that I know (who have worked like this whilst their children were little) are now unable to increase their days back up to full time because they are too expensive. Heads can not afford to pay £38k for a full time teacher when they can get an NQT for £22k. Permanent jobs advertised locally say ‘NQTs welcome’ which translates as ‘we can only afford an NQT’ so they are simply stuck. Their pensions won’t be very good either.

All the jobsharing teachers at my sister’s school (in a worse state financially than mine) are jobsharing with HLTAs, so they (as teacher) teach for 3 days, do the planning, assessment, meetings etc for the class for the whole week and have ultimate responsibility,...but the head is paying a non-teacher to deliver the other two days on-frankly abysmally-small rates of pay

If you know so much about lawyers and what they are paid, you will also know that they are either solicitors or barristers. We don't have lawyers in the UK.... This is weird because in our industry everyone refers to them as lawyers - both in house and external for legal advice, the lawyers refer to themselves as lawyers.

I think it is tricky to compare pensions because whilst you might have what seems like a decent pension package right now, that can be taken away at any time. My husband has worked in the public sector, in a 'professional' type job for fifteen years and his pension arrangements have been changed repeatedly. Unfortunately he made the (completely understandable) mistake of thinking that whilst he was being paid much less than he would earn in the private sector, he had to factor in his better pension arrangements when comparing salaries. Ten years down the line, his pension is now rubbish compared to what he originally signed up for and was told that he would be entitled to. It is better than a lot of private sector employees would have, and he appreciates that, but on the other hand, he can't travel back in time fifteen years and take a better paid job and start to make his own pension provision.

Just out of interest, people who have left teaching/ or healthcare jobs, what did you go on to do??

I am a HCP, senior level, and often look around me and wonder what I could I have done better with my career.

I had good A levels, a good degree, and have spent years doing post grad specialist training and getting my MSc.

But really, my pay has only gone up around 12k in 11 years despite a lot of higher level work.

I do often wonder what I could go in to with my qualifications!

What have other people done??

Thanks

Babacat, I didn’t leave healthcare but I did leave frontline nursing. I was very lucky and got into a specialist role (think similar to clinical nurse specialist). That said I am pretty much stuck in that job as nowhere else would give me the hours I need for childcare.

I have clinical teaching experience so one option for me would be to go into adult education (not teaching in schools, I wouldn’t do that in a million years ).

It can be very, very difficult to get out. I’ve done it, sort of, but it partly involved luck and partly involved trashing my career to do so as I am now stuck.

I think I am where you are too career wise!! I am an advanced practitioner. A great job as far as my sector goes, and I am fortune to have got it initially in my late 20’s. But by comparison to some senior and management posts in other non healthcare settings I think it’s a small drop in the ocean pay wise.

I’m now 34 and facing a long career ahead and just wondering what else is out there!

I couldn’t imagine the teaching side of things either unfortunately!

I just feel a bit stuck.

@babacat12 have you thought about university lecturing?

I did consider it once, but I’m not sure it’s for me. The biggest draw back would also be the only uni I could lecture in is about 90mons commute. So for work life balance it wouldn’t be practical!

I know that sounds a bit like having cake and eating it 😂

I had no idea what teachers earned. But having read all that it seems very very low. I was PA in the city and earned £40k when I was 27. And that was 15 years ago so god knows what PAS earn now.

I’m a teacher and believe my 38k salary is fair-yes the hours are long and there is a high level of responsibility but nothing compared to nurses or fire fighters. These people save lives! Their pay ought to reflect this. And I don’t think I could laugh more than I do at what some of my kids come out with. Added bonus.

I know what you mean OP. Our household income last year (exc child tax credits) was about £17k. The most I've ever earned in a year is £24k, but that was working 2 full-time jobs so only really £12k FTE. However, where we live our mortgage is only £320 a month, so we have enough disposable income. Hoping that one day we'll have more...

I am a teacher (in Scotland) and with recent rises, I will be earning 40k (albeit pro rata). I am educated to degree level. In primary, about half of teachers have a degree and half a college diploma (BEd). In secondary, all have degrees, I think. It is a very stressful job and you really need the holidays. However, I reckon I (personally) would struggle to earn this amount in an office-based job.

@babacat12 do you have the relevant teaching qualification you’d need to teach at that level, very different from clinical teaching

Sorry... @toostressy

I’m on £43k single parent, 2 dc. Im a teacher with a degree, pgce and masters. 10 years experience in July.
I owe £25k student loan despite paying £185ish a month towards it.
I am unable to get a mortgage where I live (Greater London) as I’m single with dependants. I need to earn about 10k more. That is never going to happen! I am doing toooooooooo much at school as it is.

I got from 22k to 43k in just under 10yrs by working my arse off. I don’t remember the last time I had a proper sleep (workload/anxiety keeps me from sleeping), I can only dream of having the time/money for a hobby, I have no money for meeting up for drinks with friends. I haven’t been on holiday for 3 years. I have debt from credit cards relied on during my student years (did post grad stuff while already a single parent) and a loan that I basically have to renew every July to pay for a few days out/essential house stuff eg broken fridge freezer last year, oven the year before- so god knows when this will ever be paid off!

On paper 43k is an amazing wage, but not when it feeds, clothes, houses 3 mouths and 2 dogs singlehanded just outside of London. Plus when you work it out, per hour it’s less than minimum wage.

It’s my choice to teach but I can’t afford to retrain, can’t afford even a temporary pay cut, and I feel that the kids need me, the school needs good teachers, and someone has to keep it all going!
I’m sure many nurses etc will have similar stories.

Custardee, no, I was trying to be vague, sorry. Was trying to give details without outing myself which I am a bit paranoid about! Should have been clearer. I would need to do further study to go into ‘proper’ adult education which tbh I have no desire to do. I wouldn’t be qualified to be a university lecturer or anything like that.

I was thinking more training type stuff, think first aid training for companies, teaching other professional groups. Eg there are companies that recruit staff to teach ECG interpretation - that’s not what I do but just to give an example of options. I’ve never found a way of doing that as a full time job though and I would be on much less money than I am on now with no job security.

My 24-year-old sister is on £38k. She also has a very good work/life balance- she has taken the last 2 days off for what is essentially a bad hangover with no hassle. Often "works from home" whilst I work myself into an early grave. I'm a trainee teacher and have given up comparing myself to her. Pretty depressing and demoralising.

(she works in banking)

I know I shouldn't compare - comparison is the thief of joy and all that - but I am getting very envious of teachers on here earning £15,000 a year more than me on less than half the experience. College teachers have a really raw deal.

I’m a librarian and have worked in both public and private sectors. The pay and conditions are a lot better in the public sector (not public libraries as they employ hardly any qualified librarians any more, but other parts of public sector.

I have a degree and postgrad qualifications, plus further qualifications I’ve done since. It took a while to train but I’m now 15 years in and on £50k (pro rata as I’m part-time). I did spend the first 8-9 years though on insecure or short term contracts, paid at around £23-26k. The private sector jobs had no incremental salary scale, whereas current job I get an automatic increase each year - I’m now at top of scale. Private sector - 4 weeks hol a year, now I have 7.5 weeks. Private sector - rubbish pension, now - much better one even though it isn’t final salary. Public sector also has much better access to training and development (I had to pay for this myself in some private sector jobs), much better policies re maternity and family leave (private sector only offered statutory minimum, My current job offered six months on full pay).
I do do work from home as well S whilst I’m physically at work, and I am on call in case there’s a emergency. There is a certain amount of weekend and evening work which I have to do (for which I get time in lieu if I’m actually at a booked event - in private sector was just expected to suck this up as part of the job).
The job involves a fair amount of teaching and mixing with people and is pretty varied and fun!

I guess pay is relative to disposable income. In South east a one bedroom flat rent is 800 a month. On a salary of 24k you are only taking home 1300 ish a month. Once vital bills taken away, you may have 300 disposable income. That's got to cover non essentials like phone, food, etc. That's not much to live on, especially when cost of living down here is higher. Add a child or two into the mix and you're struggling.
Official government poverty measure is less than 40% disposable income. I personally don't know anyone with thay much disposable capital who isn't a lawyer, doctor or banker!
If your rent is 300 it's an entirely different situation.

I work in childcare outside of London, no qualifications but 30 years experience. I’m on £31,000.00 for a 43 hour week, and do roughly 7/8 hours overtime a week. So consider myself to be on a very good salary. NHS, emergency services and armed forces deserve so much more.

SlappingJoffrey Holidayshopping
www.thelawyer.com/trainee-newly-qualified-salaries-uk-law-firms/