Feeling conflicted - hate crime, really?

[Jux]

I have ms and use a mobility scooter to do local shopping, as I can't walk very far. Today I was with dh, we'd finished the shopping when we passed a cafe with tables out on the pavement where we decided to have a drink. DH went in to order while I parked up. I had to wait a little while as an elderly chap with a mobility scooter was just leaving and I intended to use the same space. All fine and good, I parked up after gent had gone and was getting myself off the scooter to join dh at the table next to where I'd parked.

A chap from the shop next door came out and went into the cafe, then came out with the cafe owner who asked me to park elsewhere as the chap from the shop - he's standing right in front of me - didn't like people parking there. I was a bit gobsmacked but also a bit cross because he had walked right past me and not said a word, so I asked him why he hadn't spoken to me, said I spoke English and generally understood the language (it's my native language after all) so why hadn't he just spoken to me. He made excuses - the cafe owner hadn't liked him speaking directly to the previous customer basically. Anyway I moved.

The cafe owners were so upset by it, but my dh was furious. We have lived here nearly 15 years, I have parked that scooter, and the previous one, outside pretty well every shop in the high street and no one has had a word to say about it. I don't block doorways, I don't block the pavements, I don't get in people's way.

About half way through our drinks, the next door shop owner came out again and started apologising, by saying "I used to have friends with ms, I have employed people with ms..." at which I did feel aa little angry so said thatwhat he was saying was exactly the same as "I can't possibly be racist, I have a black friend" and then I said "just go away please". DH also told him that he was the only person in over 10 years who'd pbjected to my parking outside their shop and he hoped the man was ashamed. Thus it ended; we finished out drinks and went home.

DH was still so angry he was shaking. He rang the police. They say it was a hate crime and want us to go to the station to make a statement, after which they'll go and talk to the man.

My dilemma is that actually, moving the scooter wasn't hard for me to do. Luckily the shop on the other side was closed so I parked in fromt of there - when it's open I won't be able to do that as they put tons of stuff on the pavement when they're open. Today it wasn't a problem. So I'm inclined to leave it.

BUT the old man who was there before me did have a problem, and left. That's not right so maybe I should make a statement and strike a note for his right to visit the cafe.

And then, the shop owner - trade isn't that great where we live, many people are on the breadline in this town. You can still see what is in his window when there's a scooter parked, it's a little less easy but the difference is not great. He has a whole other window on the other side of his door.

DH gets a bit wound up if he thinks I'm being snubbed or hurt because of my disability, and sometimes goes a bit further than I would have on my own. DD is appalled that anyone in the town (many, many old people and many disabled people using various walking aids), and she is absolutely certain about this hate crime which has been performed against me. Yes, police, go as far as you can mum......

So, for me, it's a pretty small thing which I would normally forget as soon as it's over, but on principle it's outrageous.

I am really struggling, and don't know what to do. Cops or not?

Your dh calling the police is so utterly cringeworthy I can’t believe you’re ok with it

Well it's classed as a hate crime as the police, who should know, have said. The general public can think what they like about it. There are hate crime reporting centres in most communities if ringing the police is deemed too drastic (although the police do take this very seriously- to the questionable distaste of some folk).
Some people think they can treat disabled people like absolute shit and think they can get away with it/they wouldn't dare with any other minority. It's not ok.

This is from the Met Police Website.

"A hate crime is defined as Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race; religion or perceived religion; sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation; disability or perceived disability and any crime motivated by hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender.'

"A hate incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender."

"Not all hate incidents will amount to criminal offences, but it is equally important that these are reported and recorded by the police."

It sounds as though perhaps your DH has confused 'crime' with 'incident', or maybe the Police Officer did?

My wife has MS, and for some reason I'm not astonished. But then today, alone, I watched 3 fit and healthy men try to push in front of her in one single shop at Sainsburys (deli counter, kiosk, and cake counter). Can't really comment on this situation, but I can totally empathise with the anger.

Anger, yes, absolutely. When my very elderly and frail father was alive I used to get angry when people in supermarkets tutted as his slowness impeded their path for two seconds but this wasn’t police-worthy just as, from OP’s account, neither was her scenario.

I suspect you got caught in the middle of a conflict between the two store owners. One business (the cafe) is using the pavement outside to their benefit, and getting more money from this. They haven’t left any room in front of their own cafe where you could park up. So you needed to use the bit in front of his shop - I can see him feeling like they are taking up their space and some of his. He should have spoken to them about a solution privately and not involved you at all.
I can’t accept that “if the police say it’s a hate crime, it is” as the police are known to have completely lost the plot in certain areas over such issues, see Harry the Owl and the “wrong thinking”.

Thats what i was trying to say worra

Amd hate incidents are drastically under reported especially against disablities.

And tbh this thread proves why, the posts like the its so cringy your husband phoned the police. It shows that generally people think in particalar people with disablities and tbh people in minoroties, should just put up and shut up. Its mot serious enough to report so its not worth reporting it.

Thing is where theres an an attitude that hate incidents are allowed to take place then it breeds a culture where more serious hate crime is committed, and it means people in minorities walk around feeling intemadated and frightened.

Your husband was right for reportimg it although it was more of a hate incident than a hate crime.

I agree with tunnock - the café owner should create a space for people to park scooters. The shop owner is having his business affected by café customers. Maybe you should speak to the café owner rather than the shop owner. Especially as you said there are many other residents in the town with mobility issues.

I wonder if the Council could be persuaded to put a white line on the road just there so we disabled lot can park along the road outside the cafe? No? Thought not, but I'm soooo tempted to give it a go!

I spoke to a policewoman today - apologising that contact had been delayed due to, er, real crimes being committed no doubt!

I explained that I hadn't felt itimidated, threatened or hated in any way whatsoever and that the whole thing was a fuss about nothing, something which from my pov was over as soon as it had started really.

She said that it counted as a hate crime so that they have to investigate but that she'd pass it back to her Inspector and try to kill it. I really hope they can. I haven't been into the shop yet, but next time I go down there I will; I don't want to have to apologise for setting the cops on him too.

So if someone is told to move because they are black that is terrible. And if someone is told to move because they are gay, yes that is terrible too.

But telling someone to move because they are disabled, well that is absolutely fine and everyone is overreacting and making a mountain out of a molehill. Bloody troublesome disableds.

OP, you are under reacting because this is probably just another in a very long line of microagressions that have ground you down, that have become normalised for you. It is very telling that the people who love you most are very angry on your behalf. How dare that man ask someone else to tell you to move and not even have the courtesy to do it himself. Utter little toad of a person.

*So if someone is told to move because they are black that is terrible. And if someone is told to move because they are gay, yes that is terrible too.

But telling someone to move because they are disabled, well that is absolutely fine and everyone is overreacting and making a mountain out of a molehill. Bloody troublesome disableds*

tink exactly, i appricate your humour

hate crimes and incidents against disabled people are the most under reported because of what has been demostrated here.

While i don't think it was a hate crime i suspect it very much was a hate incident and your right how rightly appauled everyone would be if it was some one who was black or gay or even a woman. But no disabled oh well d8sablee people its ok.

He didn't tell me to move because i was disabled, though! He doesn't want things parked outside his shop blocking the window and would have told a mum with a double buggy to move it too, I am certain.

He just wanted his windows unobscured by other people's stuff. He didn't piss me off by asking that my scooter be parked elsewhere, he pissed me off by asking the cafe owner to ask , and this because she had already told him off for upsetting her customers by asking them not park outside his shop obscuring his windows.

I dealt with that bit of pissed offness myself at the time.

He then annoyed me more by trying to apologise for pissing me off the first time but starting with the 'Graham Norton Defence'. He discovered very quickly that GND is not acceptable and not to use it.

At no point did I feel singled out, intimidated, threatened etc.

I never felt that he was singling me out. OK he wouldn't have had to talk to me at all if I didn't choose to use a mobility scooter and if I hadn't chosen to park it outside his shop.

If I had been using a different, smaller mobility aid, say one of those wheeled walkers, then I wouldn't have had to use the space in front of his window at all. I could have folded it and had it by my chair in front of the cafe, couldn't I?

The longer this thread goes on, the more sorry I feel for him.

He didn't tell me to move because i was disabled, though! He doesn't want things parked outside his shop blocking the window and would have told a mum with a double buggy to move it too, I am certain

Why did you let your husband call the police? This is madness and very eye opening

your right how rightly appauled everyone would be if it was some one who was black or gay or even a woman

No such thing as a hate crime against a woman (only protected characteristic that can't have a hate crime). Unless of course that woman is or was in possession of a penis.

Something similar, which actually doesn't fall under the hate incident definition is homeless people being moved from outside shop fronts as they're bringing down the tone of the area or something. I think that is the most inhumane cruel way to treat someone down on their luck, that I can't even properly express how annoyed it makes me.

OP, I'd say, the owner was peeved as you were the 2nd person to uncaringly park up in front of his shop that day and his patience wore thin with his window front being used as a parking lot. I'd say his gripe wasn't with you, it was with the cafe owner, for not providing suitable space for buggies/scooters/wheelchairs etc. That's probably why he spoke to the owner first, rather than you.

Are you 'allowed' to park the scooter wherever you like?
Also I guess if it was a public pavement then he's got no right to tell you to move
Perhaps he does need the police to tell him he's had complaints about his behaviour and tell him where he's wrong and has no right to tell you to move etc.. (if that's the case!?)

Dowbthecanal I didn't "allow" dh to call the cops. He didn't ask me about it or even mention that he wanted to. He told me after he'd done it.

flumpybear, you know I have no idea whether there are rules about where you can or can't park a mobility scooter! i'd never even thought about it until now.

I have always automatically tried to park it where it won't impede people's normal progress, so not blocking the pavement especially if it's a narrow one - we have those in abundance - or in driveways etc. I had thought it was OK in front of his window as I had backed as far into the corner with the cafe as I could, but there was one pane (Georgian windows so 4 rows of 5 small panes) which you would have to bend you neck a bit to see through, but he didn't have anything directly in that bit of the window, behind that very pane, there were things behind the pane next to it which I wasn't parked directly in front of. You could see everything in his display from beside the scooter - I know because I was looking as I got myself off getting my stick and my handbag.

I had thought that was OK. He didn't. Fair enough.

Sunlov, that's interesting, and makes me lose even more faith in the justice of the hate crime thing. Generic laws don't always work very well.

I am no more important than a homeless person and no less. If you can't tell me to move then you can't tell them to either.

I've been moved by police while homeless as the owners didn't want me sleeping there (Tescos). I was asleep in a sleeping bag and told to move on like some sort of rat.

And as for why I was sleeping in front of Tescos, it's because you need to sleep where is well lit to avoid being attacked. I also used to sleep in parks but you'd get bitten by ants and spiders. The pavement was safer sometimes.

It's horrible to be 'othered'.

I watch a lot of programmes about retiring to the sun etc., and everyone seems to be on their mobility scooters!

Am I right in thinking that the cafe owner did not speak to you and ask you to move but spoke to the cafe owner and asked him to make alternative arrangements for his customers?

He did this because he did not want the fact that you were disabled but the fact that a next door business was affecting his trade, (as he saw it).

Not dismissing you and your feelings and don't want to be pulled up for being disablist which I am not but I do want to examine the legal niceties of the incident.

Difference between if he had said to you "Oi, you can't park that thing there" and saying to cafe owner "Could you make sure that you provide space for your customers to park when sitting at you tables so that they don't impact on my shop".

The wider issue has of course been discussed upthread.

Sorry - the shop owner spoke to the cafe owner

HowardSpring, as I understand it, there was a disabled man who wanted to use the cafe so parked his scooter in front of the shop, and the shop owner asked him not to. The disabled man went into the cafe and said something about it. The cafe owner then told the shop owner not to upset her customers.

The disabled man (who may have stayed and had his drink or not - I don't know) was just leaving the cafe as I drew up. I made the (wrong) assumption that as his scooter had been parked there, it would be OK if I did too, so I waited until he'd gone and then took his place. My scooter is much smaller than the man's and I squeezed it right in so it was as inconvenient as possible.

As I collected my bag and stick, having got off the scooter, the cafe owner and the shop owner came out of the cafe and the cafe owner started to ask me to move the scooter. The shop owner was right there in front of me and must have gone past me in order to go to get the cafe owner. I was absolutely shocked that he had not just come straight to me and asked me to move.

That's what started it, I suppose, me demanding to know why he hadn't come straight to me. "i'm here, I speak English, why didn't you juask me?". DH nudged me because apparently my volume was rising so I quietened down and moved the scooter.

I HAD thought he had ignored me because I was disabled. I was wrong. He didn't approach me directly because the cafe owner had told him not to upset her customers, so he went straight to her.

None of this indicates hate crime or even hate incident to me. I don't believe 'hate' came into it. I don't believe disabled people were being targetted.

I do see that I need the scooter BECAUSE I'm disabled. I don't see that asking me to move the scooter means I was being discriminated against or 'hated'.

I do think the cafe owner needs to think about where her scooter-mounted customers can park and I expect she is considering it as she is a business woman and there is obviously a problem. I doubt that I need to suggest it to her.

It would be really nice if the police drop the whole thing now, their attention is not necessary or wanted. My dh over-reacted massively when he called them, and yes there is an amount of infantilisation in his behaviour towards me which I have been fighting against for almost the whole 20 years we've been married - with a degree of success (small but significant) but that is irrelevant to this matter.

I doubt he will call the police on my behalf like this again, but I see from this thread that he is not alone in the way he sees things, he just felt more strongly about it.

It is rotten OP that you should have to deal with this or even think about it at all. As if you don't have enough to have to cope with. There should be proper space for you to park your scooter wherever you need to. We should, as individuals and as a society, be thinking about that all the time.

I am lucky I am fit and well but when I am with my very elderly mother it only takes minutes before I realise how bloody difficult it all is if one is not completely "able".

You write about the issue in a way that I have not often seen on MN, which tends to favour the black and white approach - and it has made me think about things in a different way - so thank you. (And enjoy your next coffee - if we get another sunny day )

Not sure about black and white description, but I know that I have a responsibility too. My disability is no one's fault but how I deal with it affects other people and as a member of society it is up to me to minimise negative aspects of that as much as I can.

And on a personal note, I don't want to be 'that' disabled person who cries unfair and discrimination at every opportunity, nor do I want to play the victim as I am not one.