Would you take your child into a prison?

[ConcealDontFeeI]

My 3yo DDs dad got sent to prison a couple of months ago for fighting. Was pretty bad and he has history. It was a group of thugs against another group of thugs (there were voice notes given as evidence of the other man saying 'come to my house and I'll kill you you '.

Absolutely not excusing it. I'm embarrassed and feel guilty every day that I chose this person as a dad for my beautiful DD. In my defence, for the few years we were together he was pretty decent. He then had a mental breakdown and became abusive, I broke up with him and he went down this route. He saw DD supervised in a contact centre for a while, then was signed off as ok to have her unsupervised.

He's been a pretty shitty dad in the terms of his life choices, but dotes on her when he's around her. She loves him very much. Which actually makes all of this a lot harder. I'm really not a fan of him, though I pity him a bit. But my absolute only concern in this is what's best for my DD.

I always said that no way was I taking my child to a prison. I've been there before whilst volunteering at uni, and I saw kids upset being searched by heavy handed P.Os and dogs (obviously this is necessary, no criticism).

I know that they run family days where he is, with soft play and face painting and stuff. So the environments a bit nicer. But I doubt the searching and things can change. She's young though and I could probably make up a story to explain it. But should I lie to her even more?

He's not pushing it, only asked once right at the beginning and I said no and he accepted my reasoning. But I feel really bad for my DD. He might get a couple of years. She gets very upset about how much she misses him. I've said he's working in another country (not sure if this was the right thing to do, research seems to be quite split and if she was a few years older I wouldn't have but I didnt know what to do for the best). He calls her every day but she really hates speaking on the phone to anybody, even me.

WWYD? I understand that MN isn't the demographic that is likely to be for this idea. TBH, I'm not really the type of person that would be either. I just want to do what's best for her though, and is keeping her away from her dad for years the best for her? I'm leaning towards yes, as I always have, because who wants their young child going to a prison!? But would seeing her dad in a fun environment be worth telling a fib to explain the nice policemen searching her?

No judging please. I'm not a scumbag; I left my abusive boyfriend at 21 with a little baby and started a degree right away, worked to solely provide for us throughout, starting a masters in September, never ever been in trouble with the police and have complete respect for the law etc. My DD has an absolutely lovely, idyllic life. Scared to post this but desperate for outside opinions.

You’ve been given some really valuable insights from people on this thread, I’m sure there’s lots of good for thought OP.

But you have to filter all this advice through what you know about your unique, individual daughter. Ask yourself:

• Is she resilient?
• Does she go to a nurturing school where bullying or ‘othering’ isn’t likely to be an issue?
• Does the quality of her current relationship warrant exposure to a prison environment (some kids would walk over hot coals to see their parent, other kids not so much)?
• Does she have any sensory issues (ie could she cope with the noise, the bright lights, being frisked etc)?

Ultimately, do the benefits of visiting Dad in prison outweigh the negatives? Only you can answer that (for what it’s worth you sound like a wonderful Mum and whatever decision you make I’m sure it will be the right one!). Good luck!

I have experience of visiting prison in my younger days but not as a child of a prisoner and not as someone who had a child. For another poster I might have something to say but not to you. You sound like a fantastic mum with her head screwed on who will do what's best for your dd, not you, not her dad but her.

I know it feels daunting but it's not as bad as you imagine. Don't want to go into details but I've taken my 9 & 12 year old into Cat C prison. It is such a moral boost for the prisoners to have visitors xx

I'd just like to add, the frisking of the children was far less than they endured at airports.

Find out who runs the Visits Centre at the prison he's held at. Call them or even go and see them to be talked/ walked through the process. Then make your decision.

It's different in every place, and the experience you'll get doesn't necessarily depend on the Category.
If he's on Remand, he's entitled to the maximum number of Visits a week. Usually one or two in the week & one at the weekend for an hour or so.

Family Days are longer, more relaxed. But he'd have to put an Application in to be considered, they're an earned privilege.

PM me if you like, I work in the sector.

Hi OP.

I think I know which prison you're talking about - south coast? If so it's had its fair share of troubles like many local jails - overcrowding etc. And remand jails can be more volatile than others - a less settled population, and people resentful at being imprisoned when they haven't yet been found guilty.

However - there is a real drive to improve things for visitors and families because it's clearer than ever that maintaining strong family ties is a way of reducing reoffending after release. Gives offenders something to look forward to and stay out of trouble for - both while inside and afterwards. I've seen prisons with rabbits for the children to stroke, bouncy castles etc etc.

I'd say weigh it all up in terms of the overall relationship but necessarily be put off by the visit experience itself.

My advice is to make very sure you know the wardrobe guidelines for visitors. Some are super strict about weird things - like not wearing flipflops and low cut tops. Security reasons the usual excuse. But people sometimes travel a long way only to get turned back at the gate and that's awful.

I know someone who arranged something called Storybook Dads where prisoners were recorded reading to their children so kids could keep in contact.

Not saying you should do this instead but possibly as well?

Not sure I'd take my dd to visit him in prison. Maybe not seeing her will be the wake up call he needs to turn his life around.

@ConcealDontFeeI, you sound like a lovely mum. It's heartening to see you putting your dd's needs above everything else and it's obvious from your posts that you only want what's best for her.

In this way, I think that whatever you decide to do will be right for her as you're doing it with the best intentions; and I'm sure you'll alter things if you feel it's not working for her at any point.

Tbh, that's all anyone can do for their children.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

I'm going to say No.

I had a similar discussion about dd with my GP, when I pretty much had a nervous breakdown one day at work. I spilled out everything to her and she said 'From my experience, if they haven't been around from the start, they don't suddenly come good'.

I had everyone in my ear forbidding me! from allowing dd to meet her father. (He fucked off when I was pregnant).

You can let her know his name etc. but I would not lie to her. I would not under any circumstances bring her to a prison to visit some thug - and let's not mince words here - this is your daughter we're talking about - he's in prison because he's a thug.

You have to remove titles from this. Father. Dad. He doesn't fucking deserve that. And you would be very naive to bring her to a prison to visit that side of her family heritage.

What has your dd to gain from this? Nothing.

What have you to gain? You assuage your guilt.

What will he do when he comes out? He'll fuck off and you'll never see nor hear from him again. Nor will she.

He had previous which is why he's going to do significant time. He is not what you want. Seriously. Your dd doesn't deserve to be worried about 'poor Daddy'. She doesn't deserve to be bullied at school because her father is in prison.

I know it's not blooming easy shouldering the weight of the knowledge you have. But that is for you to shoulder. It's not for a 3 year old to shoulder. You're an adult. She is not. He is a thug. The less she knows about him the better. Of course, he would be Mr. Perfect if she came to visit. But what about when he gets back out when she's 6 or 8 and fucks off and has nothing to do with her?

Think further down the road OP. I know you've had a lot of support saying Go for it! I'm giving you the support to say NO FUCKING WAY.

Also - he is very possibly using her now as a ploy to get a lenient sentence and consideration for a soft prison.

Don't get sucked in.

As all above who have o advice but the utmost of respect for you. Take care and you're doing great OP

You said you ended the relationship because he was abusive. Can you say how he was abusive?

His character would be the deciding factor for me.

And sometimes we have to make decisions as mothers which will set us up as targets for a bollocking in years to come. But it's just something you have to shoulder yourself. You can keep all his details, and he can start paying for her when he gets out and then maybe have sustained contact. He has to prove himself to be a father though. Any prick can ejaculate. And any prick can use their child to their advantage.

You have to be unbelievably strong here and take a very difficult path. It would be so easy to imagine fairytales. They don't exist.

You're her Mum. He's a dickhead. In prison. Your dd is only 3. Make the difficult choice. Choose the path that is best for her. It surely isn't the easy path, but it's the right one.

And I'm sorry to sound cold, but dd's father fucked off when I was pregnant. I found out last year, that he was actually in prison for a year! I have always randomly contacted him every few years or so, just to know that I still have his details.
He demanded to meet her last year. I told him that when he paid maintenance for the past 14 years, maybe then I'd consider it.
He then sent me a load of 'holy' Memes blessing me and forgiving me. He ranted on and on about how I was denying her a father.
It rattled me.

But he point blank refused to pay even £10 for her until he had met her first.
So unfortunately, I do know what I'm talking about.

Meanwhile, I spoke with dd and said that her father would like to make contact - her response? I'm not interested. When dd says something she means it. I've left it at that.

Yes, I'm the one who is bearing the pain. He's certainly not. Dd, for now, could not be more disinterested.

I'm glad that my GP advised me as she did 11 years ago - like yours - dd was 3 at the time.

The stress of making a decision on this can be horrendous. As I said, it nearly broke me. And I didn't even know that he had been in prison!

Your dd has a lovely strong articulate Mum. She doesn't need a cunt for a father.

Hi OP, the grandad of my nephews was sent to prison. Their parents were very open about it and took the boys to visit. They were older but accepted it and talked about it openly, and had their questions answered. It was not such a big deal for them as they were always very honest about it. I never visited but I heard the visits went well. Best of luck x

I have worked in a prison. I know your former partner did something wrong - but I also believe that he is being punished and that should be that. If your daughter has a great bond with him, then I think on balance, I would take her.

I think there are so many mental health issues in prison and making prisoners feel connected to their families is very beneficial.

I would take her - for both their sakes.

Someone close to me and my children is in prison. He had a wonderful, close relationship with them before going in. They miss him desperately and him them, but we have both decided that a) they will never go to visit him in there and that b) they will be protected from the fact he is there. They are way too young even at 8 and 9 to understand. They think h is working away. They maintain their relationship far more healthily via daily phone calls, lots of letters/pictures, and my talking about him often. He has 2 years to do and then things will hopefully return to normal

No judgements OP, I understand completely what you are going through. I'm convinced prison is harder for the loved ones outside than the person locked away. Sending much love

You said you ended the relationship because he was abusive. Can you say how he was abusive?

He got very paranoid and controlling, with everyone really but obviously me especially. It was symptomatic of his mental illness I think, but there's only so much you can excuse before you have to put yourself and your child first. Never violent towards me.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I'm going to see what the sentence is next week, and not even consider it if it's just a few months. If longer, I'll see where he's sent to and what provisions they have for family visits. I emailed where he is now last night and they wrote a lovely email back to me this morning saying their search procedures are as child friendly as possible and if I decide to bring her then to tell them at the desk that she might get scared then they'll try their best to make it fun for her. Which all sounds positive but the next one might not be like this and I wouldn't take her to a normal visit.

Basically I'm just going to play it by ear, but like I said yesterday, I'm comforted that neither option makes me a bad mum. Thanks everyone for posting and sharing and being so kind

I've no personal experience, but I'd try to take her whilst he's still on remand and see how it goes. If it's too upsetting for her then at least you tried. You'll know much more than I do, but I think things inside are tougher once they've been convicted?

It’s difficult and I do think that, like other posters, whatever you do you’ll do it in the best way possible for your daughter, because you are a really good mum.

I think that verynice was obviously writing very much from her own personal perspective in the wee small hours last night.

But she does possibly have a point about the way he’s using his daughter to get a better sentence / conditions. I’d take a moment to think about how much this is influencing his motivations in being quite so determined to be a devoted father from prison. Does his behaviour now tie in with his behaviour before being inside, and before he knew he was going inside?

I’d just be a bit careful

I'm surprised by the responses.

If your partner was in jail for tax evasion or shoplifting I'd say yes, take her.

But he's abusive.

He has a temper that leads to seious violence when things don't go his way.

Im sure if you had said "should i facilitate my abusive husband seeing my daughter " and not.mention the prison situation you'd get different reactions. So im somewhat confused.

A man who abuses his child's mother is a child abuser. I would not want this man to be the male my daughter learns about men from.

Will you be happy with him having shared custody at some point in the future?

@ConcealDontFeeI PSR is a pew sentence report. You can add your letter to that too

I used to visit my uncle every week in prison (for the 9 months he was in). My mum and Grandparents visited him every week and i had no choice but to go as DM was a single mum and didn’t have anyone else to take care of us.

I don’t have any lasting bad memories of it. In fact the opposite. He was in a low risk, open type prison. There were lots of families visiting there, the prison staff were friendly and I remember this big room with lots of chairs to sit on. There was a snack bar and a corner to play in with some toys, often paints, crafts etc. There were lots of children there too.

It’s your decision, do what you think is best 😊