Advice re DS, DS' "friend" and my friend.

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NC for this as it's very outing if my friend is on here.

DS is 4.5. When he started school in Sept 18 I got chatting to another Mum (AM) who lives nearby and the boys seemed to get on well. They're in the same class.

We've done a few playdates which have been good - I'm often on my own at weekends as DH works alternate ones and friend is on her own with her DS (Call him A).

The last playdate we had ended miserably. My DS had been poorly a few days before and a huge tantrum ensued when he said A could eat his orange. Then he changed his mind when 1 segment was left. It resulted in horrid behaviour from DS, hitting, kicking, screaming and even biting me when I removed him from the playgym.

The last few months, each morning at drop off, it has also got gradually worse. There is a piece of play equipment at school which all the kids love. It's become a huge sticking point between DS and A. They bicker over whose turn it is, who has had the longest turn etc and pretty much each morning there are tears and tantrums from one or the other.

The same happened this morning with my DS insisting he hadn't had a long enough turn. I, as usual said no, it's time to share and he insisted repeat repeat repeat... A then ended up in tears, coming over to AM saying my DS wouldn't let him have a go etc. I told DS he was to come off right that second... he did and stomped off in a sulk.

This morning DS also made a point of saying it wasn't A's turn but another boy who had turned up afterwards.

I told him this wasn't kind and if he continued he would be banned from going on the equipment full stop.

AM then abruptly said, aloud, "I'm fucking fed up of this shit every morning" and looked visibly cross. I told DS to come down and to play elsewhere.

I said to AM I think the boys are both very similar in being strong characters and perhaps they just do rub each other up the wrong way. Once more children were on the equipment and DS was playing with another child and A playing with another child, peace was "restored"

I said to AM I hoped that this wouldn't effect anything between us and she said it wouldn't but I can't help but feel the outburst was aimed at me.

What do I do? I try to get my son to share, not to be mean and to be kind. I tell him when I feel it's not kind etc and I don't know what to do.

I don't want to have to arrive at school later (we're often one of the first in the playground) to avoid awkwardness, or issues.. but I can't see what else I can do. It's so bloody embarrassing when DS stomps off or doesn't share

I think you may be reading too much into her comment. You've admitted you're frustrated with the situation, she expressed that she is also frustrated. She didn't specifically state that she was frustrated with you, just that the bickering every day is getting on her nerves. Which is also true of how you feel, it's just she's expressed it verbally and you keep it inside. But you've taken her comment to mean that she's annoyed with you, which is completely not what I would have read from that situation, and the fact that she's texting you about it and saying she doesn't know how to deal with it either suggests to me that you're both feeling the same. I think you've taken it too personally, and an open conversation with her and agreeing a tactic that you can both use may help. That way both boys see that the other is being dealt with in the same way, no arguments if one is being punished and one not for the same behaviour.

I'd take a step back from AM. Certainly don't establish a pattern of automatically assigning your son 100% of the blame in front of A or his mum.

A lot of what you describe is normal stuff for 4 year olds. They're often emotionally exhausted toward the end of term, so that could be a factor too. If you feel that your son is struggling with something, then it can be helpful to have a break and reintroduce things in a set manner. It sounds like you're son wants to play with other children, but is struggling with some of the detail. Maybe have a break from the early play for a day or two, do something enjoyable in the car, then try again for a short time before the bell. Role play at home - any little figures are great for this. Take turns being the child who is doing things that annoy other children, and being the child who is annoyed. Practice a few scenarios of "if this happens, I can try this". Talk to your son about how everyone is learning about how to be friends, and some children find some things easier than others.

Wow I could have written this myself a few years ago!

I agree with other posters, you just need to be much stronger with your DS. Sit in the car before school, no book/tablet etc. He'll soon learn! Hopefully he'll grow out of it. My youngest DS was a nightmare in year R and massively turned a corner when he moved into year 1 ( and was separated from another child). He's like a different boy now.

You will get there OP, Don't beat yourself up over it

I've recently had a very similar situation with DD and one of her friends. Dd always excited to see friend, but both have strong personalities and although they want to be friends, in practice they just don't get on. Most of the arguing is around sharing with them as well. I tried lots of chats about being a good friend, threatening her with not going to various activities any more if she couldn't be kind, emphasising that her friend feels very sad when dd isn't kind. None of it made any difference at all. Like you I was embarrassed and upset by my dd's behaviour and worried about the effect it would have on my friendship with friend's mum. In the end I just spoke to the other mum about it honestly. I told her how embarrassed I was, told her that I didn't want it to affect our friendship but understood that each of us had to put our own child's welfare first (although DD was behaving really badly, I was worried that she would end up thinking of herself as a 'naughty' or 'bad' child and begin to act accordingly.) We decided to just keep them apart as much as possible - we asked teachers at their various activities to try to seat them away from each other and encouraged them to play with different people in the playground, while still speaking positively about the other child at home (oh it's gymnastics today! X will be there, and so will Y and Z! You'll have a great time!). Eventually they just settled into a more distant type of friendship and the intense arguing over toys and gymnastic mats and places in the line etc stopped. I would definitely just sit in the car and listen to an audio book or something in the mornings for a while and try to cool the friendship as much as you can, preferably with the other mum on board.

I would ease off the play dates for a bit, and arrive at school just in time to go inside. Let AM know you are just minimising situations that make DS kick off.

I personally wouldn't be offended by her comment. I mean, are you not also fucking fed up of that shit every morning?!

@Ca55andraMortmain Some great suggestions there thank you.

I personally wouldn't be offended by her comment. I mean, are you not also fucking fed up of that shit every morning?! Not offended, surprised by her language in the school playground perhaps but also understand why.

I have ascertained from her that she also doesn't want any awkwardness between us and that we should keep an eye on the situation "before anything bad happens" I asked what she meant by that and she said "violence on either part"

Perhaps overthinking it but going back to a few weeks back when he bit me, she seemed really, REALLY shocked and disgusted. Sadly, he also bit a child in class a few days later too. That friend, S is his "best friend in the world" and they are thick as thieves and playing together with no hint anything had happened the day before.

I have a feeling she means my son acting out against hers, but is saying "on either part" to be diplomatic?

First thing I would do is not turn up 30 mins before if I had no reason too (unless you do of course that’s different) but I would also tone things down regarding play dates and encourage other friends for play dates until things calm down a bit, also maybe have a chat with the teacher (discreetly) to see if kids play well together at school and maybe say what’s been happening regarding play equipment in the morning (you never know if it causes a lot of problems even with other kids there may be a ban on playing on it before/after school)
Also don’t worry about the other mum getting upset with you she’s seen how you have dealt with it but maybe have a catch up when kids are at school and tell her you hope she isn’t offended.

We have to be parked up by 8.15-8.20 otherwise the spaces are too far for me to get to the car and into work on time. We usually stay in the car until 8.30 then head to the playground.

I have messaged AM saying maybe giving the boys some space to cool things would be good and that I'm not offended if she wants to.

It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other...Yesterday A ran over and said "C said I was X" There were only the two of them in the playground and DS hadn't said a word. A also was tantrumming yesterday because he was trying to hide, in an opensided shelter and others could see him. DS is very strong willed. A is also but AM also describes A as very sensitive.

And does your friend do anything when her child lies and misbehaves?

I had this with a couple of friends kids. All 6 of one, but because l would discipline mine those kids soon realised they could get my son in trouble and nothing would happen to them.

Very sly behaviour. I did wise up and when my now ex friend would comment on how "boisterous" DS was being, instead of telling him off I'd point out why he was running around ..... i.e because HER child was chasing him!

What I'm trying to get at, is that 100% be firm on behaviour but don't let him be the automatic "naughty" child just because the other mum doesn't recognise it in their own child.

So if something happens like the lying, then you need to stick up for your child and not just assume he's in the wrong. Did you point out he was lying?

I think you should cool the comms with AM. If she's stressed about what's going on messages from you picking over it might not help.

And chill your beans re the language- we all have our moments.

@SnapesGreasyHair Yes, I had a moment where brain and mouth didn't have a filter between and retorted "He said no such thing A!" to which AM said something back to A - I cant recall what.

I just don't want hostilities. I don't mind the children not being friends or getting on. I don't want awkwardness and otherwise.

Just arrive at school in time for them to go inside.
Taking him to play and butt heads before class isn't working for him. Trying to make him not butt heads with A is setting him up to fail.
Make the morning before entering school calm and pleasant by arriving and entering school. You are getting very stressed over this too.

I think you need to reframe it - think about your DS and his behaviour...
it doesnt matter whether its A - next week/year it could be someone else...

you do sound like you give in a bit - with video/distraction etc etc you relaly need to get to a position with your child that when you say he has to stand beside you quietly he does....-irrespective of what other children do or are doing......

would recommend 1-2-3 magic have seen it work with even the most 'spirited/stubborn ' child- maybe see if you can find a course running locally as (try children centre/ Early help in your area) - if not have a look at the book
www.amazon.co.uk/1-2-3-Magic-Effective-Discipline-Children/dp/149262988X/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?psc=1&_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&refRID=0T7Z51F90F85MPRYEHB9

your firendship or whatever with AM is almost irrelevant you need to find a way of managing your DC behaviour....your DH doesnt sound very helpful - yes your DC are not ill/disabled whatever but that doesnt excuse poor behaviour.... and he will have to get onside too..

I think you need to stop the excuses. He over powers you and the anxiety. You are his mother. Get tough and sort him out. This will not be the last of this if you don't put a stop to it. Yes sure your son will be upset. But he will learn to behave and that you are in charge. Your anxiety will be much worse if this continues

@momonpurpose I imagine op has seeing as this thread is 3 years old