Formula Fed baby suffering terribly with wind, any advice?

[Rarfy]

Hi

I have posted before about my formula fed dd who suffers terribly with wind. I got some great advice and tried a couple of things but she is now 10 wks old and the problem is ongoing.

She has been awake from 2.30am last night where she had a 5 ounce bottle then has not gone back over as she has been writhing around since then pumping.

Every day she wakes us up straining to pump then letting out ginormous manly farts. There's not just one, it goes on for hours.

Anyone that holds her comments on her pumping all the time. My dm has had 5 dc and numerous dgc and has never come across it before.

So far we have tried:
Baby massage - hasn't done anything but she does enjoy it
Cycling her legs - helps release the farts occasionally
Infacol - this has definitely helped with the colic as i have tried to cut her down the last few days and she has gotten worse.
Colactase - this seemed to make the biggest difference in that she now enjoys a bottle and seemed to reduce the farting episodes slightly but nothing significant
Gaviscon - did nothing for dd
Cows milk allergy formula - did nothing for dd (although admittedly i didn't try it for long).

So now i want to change formula. She is on cow and gate first stage. I don't know which to move to though and admittedly dont want to keep chopping and changing.

I have heard good things about Hipp Organic and also comfort milk. Which one do i choose?

Fwiw the health visitors suggested baby massage and gp cows milk allergy both of which haven't helped. I also tried to BF dd but she wouldn't latch.

It's so sad seeing her uncomfortable.

I might be wrong but i did think wind from intolerance/allergy was likely to be foul smelling. The milk definitely took at least 2-3 weeks to notice change, and our paediatrician wouldn’t allow us to swap without the 3 week period.

There wasn’t a definitive test for CMPI, we’ve found out just how allergic DS is as he’s been weaned and beyond as any attempt to challenge the allergy has resulted in a more severe reaction, all gut related.

I will look into the foul smelling thing because if they do smell with cmpi likely she doesnt have it. I think poos are a good indicator too and i did compare her poos to some on a site about whats normal with images and hers looked pretty much as it should for her age.

Just had a feed now however she was laid farting away for a good half hour first. I have cycled her legs and brought them up to her chest numerous times during nappy change and released a lot so hopefully help.

Hi, have you used the Tommie tippee anti colic bottles? That’s the one we use we found it made a big difference ( our son pretty much cried solid for first couple
Of months)

Not sure about the other meds your using but I use infracol which I know you use ... and then I will turn to gripe water if desperate about 30 mins after a feed to help push bubbles through

Our boy is a bit older now, but tummy time and rolling helps too.... the change in position maybe? So when it’s been bad will
Lay in bed ... and let him roll on top of us to a more comfortable position ( we are not going to bed this is to just help) usually he ends up on side ... the roll will sometimes push some of the wind through ... and he can sometimes fall asleep 😴

It does get better Thomas is 17 weeks now and as he is starting to get better at rolling and tummy time and sitting with support he is passing wind so much better.

Still need the infracol though went a day without it 2 days ago... stupid stupid
Stupid idea! 😂😂

Boots have a half price sale on Tommie tippee bottles 1 is just £3.74 ... so not to expensive to try x

You didn't give it nearly long enough with the hypo-allergenic milk! She needs to be on it for at least three weeks before you assess whether it has improved things. This is very, very important, as if she does have an intolerance (which sounds more likely than an allergy), then continuing to feed her normal formula will damage her gut. This will result in lots more discomfort, immune problems and will leave her much more susceptible to other food intolerances and allergies. Using a hypo-allergenic formula is not 'medicating' her. Three weeks is not a long time to try it. Please try it again.

THIS.

I posted on your last thread and said this and that coming off it at 4 days could just leave you with more questions in the future if her symptoms didn't settle. But it's so hard to know what's best to do. I know that.

We have a repeat prescription for aptimil pepti 1. The chemist automatically request it from the GP and we collect it after 4 weeks. All sorted out for us and incredibly easy. If we start looking like we'll run short we tell the chemist who order it early and we simultaneously contact the GP who sort out an earlier prescription and then send it direct to the GP. You just need to set it up like this so that you're not rushing around - far easier with a repeat than with a single prescription.

We use MAM bottles and they've really helped the wind. We were originally using avent bottles and infacol. Then switched to MAM. Couldn't afford to get it wrong so bought one MAM and one Dr Browns. Decided on MAM and then got some secondhand on marketplace and bought a few more off Amazon. Probably spent about £25 for 8 Bottles.

I would also suggest you sign up to one of the cmpa Facebook groups. They're incredibly well placed to advise and you'll get more of a feel as to whether it is cmpa. I still don't know for certain that it's what my DD has. Every time we trial normal formula she has some kind of reaction but not consistently and often in line with another illness in the family. Sometimes her symptoms seem very mild but categorically the main one was wind.

Thank you. I think bottle wise because i have read so many good things about the Mam we will just stick with these for now.

I made the same mistake with infacol oh my days you forget how helpful it is when it wears off and you end right back im those colicky days! You have my sympathies.

We bring dd into bed and lie on tummy when she wakes in the morning and this settles her immediately but we then can't sleep due to her being face down which is a shame.

Hi @MaverickSnoopy, you were so helpful on my other thread. I know i will be able to sort the prescriptions for the milk as you have suggested so that would be fine but as you know i have always felt like they jumped to that diagnosis too quickly. It could well be right though and i know i need to perservere longer with the milk. I just can't get my head around why i wouldn't see a quicker improvement with the wind. I am no expert though and should take the advice from people that know better.

How has your dds weight gain been on the apti pepti 1? My dd didn't do well at all and she only took it for 4 days.

How do you make yours up when out and about? I rely on cartons so this is another reason i am worried about moving over but once i get my head around how to make up bottles when on the move that won't be a problem.

Hi OP, I replied to your previous thread. I agree with a PP that I think your baby is probably intolerant to the milk.
I found with DD2 who was not as severely allergic as DD1 that although the Aptamil Pepti 1 didn't help when we was put into Nutramigen it greatly helped. I tried comfort formula and it didn't help.
Excessive wind is a feature of CMPI and it can take a couple of weeks to get out their system and for symptoms to improve. 4 days isn't really long enough. I know you were worried about running out of the tins. When we were on a trial I requested three/four at a time because some of the prescription formulas come in tiny tins.
I've had two CMPA babies and I've always envied my friends who have been able to use cartons but you do get used to it.
Take a sterilised bottle, a flask of water and powder in a pot. (Boots do them) and jobs a good un'!
Hope your daughter settles soon OP

Thanks @Daisychainsandglitter. I am at the gp again at 9.30. If they suggest the milk again which i suspect they probably will i will request a bigger prescription and just put repeats in as soon as i have collected the first one.

My theory about the milk and wind is obviously wrong. I keep comparing it to when i eat cheese savoury which i can't tolerate. I will be bad a couple of hours afterwards but once that has passed be fine so i thought it would be a similar thing e.g. she would only get the terrible wind when she has had the milk she can't handle.

I will see what the gp suggests.

A flask of boiled water? I know this probably sounds really stupid but how do you cool it? The ma bottles have a screw on base so if you place it in a jug of water the water penetrates the bottle therefore the feed is no good anymore. There must be a nack to the mam bottkes i'm sure i just don't know what it is.

Tbh the cartons are a bit too watery for dd she ends up splurting more out than she takes in i think.

Excess wind alone can be a sign of CMPI.

You are second-guessing and over-thinking this, OP.

There is no definitive test for CMPI, other than to try the hypo-allergenic milk and see what happens. It may even be, if her symptoms reduce but don't disappear, that she needs an actual dairy-free formula instead of Pepti.

You will only know this by trying it.

There is no risk to trying it. It is not 'medication'. It is just food, in a slightly different form!

If there is no change after 2-3 weeks, you haven't lost anything.

If you don't try it properly and she carries on having symptoms, you will still be in the dark. You might even find her symptoms get worse as time goes by. And if it is CMPI and you don't know, weaning will be a nightmare.

I'm still not sure why you're so resistant to the idea of trying. But chat it through with the GP.

I ended up using Neocate with both mine which states to use cool boiled water so a bit different but same principle.
I would boil the kettle before I went out, when it had cooled slightly so it wasn't burning, I'd transfer it to a flask so it would be at the right temperature for baby when out.
Word of caution- I tried using a Tommie tippee flask and found it always leaked everywhere so I found carrying a small thermos better.
I would definitely give your DD a good try on a prescription formula. When my daughters changed over fully to prescription formula I would be given 12 tins a month of Neocate on repeat prescription so I would rarely run out.
If you don't try and she does have CMPI and you end up weaning it will be a nightmare and will cause tummy issues for your DD.
Good luck at Drs later.

If I was going out for shorter periods, I used to make a bottle up in advance and take it with me. It's perfectly ok to make it up to two hours in advance.

The thing is they probably didn't jump to a diagnosis - it's more of a case of ruling things out. They have to do that in order to get to the right outcome. She will only gain by doing a proper trial. If she does have it then problem solved. The formula is food for babies and used specifically for babies with dairy allergy. It won't cause any baby harm, it's just made a different way and in the case of aptimil pepti 1 the protein is simply broken down so they can tolerate it. It's the closest thing to "normal" formula. Once you've done a proper trial it will rule it out or in. You don't see a faster improvement because it takes a while to leave their system. My DD had tremendous wind before and now it's settled down completely.

My DD's weight gain has been fine on it. But massive caveat, she's had it since she was 4 days old. It's not very nice to have and so the older babies get the less they like to drink it and so their overall milk consumption goes down a lot of the time. Did your DD drink less of it that the formula she was previously having?

When going out we do several things. Short trips try and time it with when we go out and feed before we go which gives us 3-4 hours of being out before next feed. If we can't do that then we take a feed with us and it's good for 2 hours. If we're going out for a longer trip then we do the flask thing mentioned above. More recently we've been taking a separate bottle of cooled boiled water too as a back up in case we can't get access to water for cooling the bottle. So make up half with hot water from flask and shake well to kill the bacteria and then top up with sterile water, but she's 5 months now and has more resilience. We've only done it once though and is a back up plan more than anything. If we're going to someone's house we just make it there. The other thing you can do is transport it in a cool bag on ice blocks and it lasts up to 4 hours (I think), you'd need to check the WHO guidance.

I hope you're doctors appointment went well. One last thing, is her poo kind of shiny at all or stringy ever?

No i wouldnt really say her poo is shiny or stringy. It's more like clay i would say.

Well the GP thinks it's definitely not CMPI and she is probably just a windy baby and will grow out of it. She said there would be more than just the wind really if it was CMPI and said it is often misdiagnosed.

She suggested trying another formula and mentioned the aldi mamia one which she said is hydrolised so might help.

Clay like poo doesn't sound like cmpa, but then they don't need to have all the symptoms for it to be cmpa. The GP is right, it does get misdiagnosed, but in both directions. Plenty of people trying to get their babies diagnosed but whose GPs say it's not when it is. It's tricky because a lot of the symptoms are in line with normal baby experiences. There was an article in the papers a couple of months ago about how many GPs are diagnosing cmpa when it's just not but until babies are old enough and can have the blood test it can be hard to tell in some cases (like ours). If you haven't got anywhere with your GP and your instinct is that it's not cmpa and you don't want to pursue it then my only real advise would be to be cautious when weaning. Don't introduce dairy straight away and maybe follow the "milk ladder" which helps you slowly introduce dairy in the right way. Then you can look to see how she is.

I used Aldi mamia with my second - it's not hydrolised. I don't know why you're gp would think that. You can't buy hydrolised formula anywhere apart from a pharmacy and it has to be ordered in. A GP should really know that. From my own experience the mamia formula is quite bubbly so I would steer clear of that as it would probably make wind worse. You might find this comparison of the nutritional information in mamia and aptimil formula useful - it's basically the same www.notyouraverage.co.uk/2017/09/aldi-mamia-baby-milk-vs-aptamil.html?m=1. I found hipp organic to be good with my first and she was pretty windy.

Only time will tell and for now keep doing what you're doing - maybe massage too and infacol. Just to complicate matters, I was advised NUK Bottles which are supposed to be good for wind - not tried them though.

OP I agree wirh PPs that this doubds like cmpa. I have 2 cmpa children. Both had excessive wind as their primary symptom. The first also had relative constipation (opened bowels once a day but strained and looked uncomfortable) and the stool did not look like breast-milk poo.

It took over a year to get my eldest diagnosed as CMPA is not well understood by non-specialists. This is despite being a HCP myself. FWIW there is no such thing as CMPI anymore - it’s all allergy, just nonIgE or IgE mediated depending on symptoms.

It takes 2-4 weeks for symptoms to improve on a prescription formula. Even then they may not resolve fully. EHF like Aptamil pepti 1 still contain some cow’s milk proteins so will not work for those with a more severe allergy.

Ask for a referral to paediatrics and for Ige rast testing to CMP. If that’s positive it confirms the diagnosis but only if IgE type allergy. Your DD’s symptoms sound more like nonIgE mediated allergy which si what my kids have. There is no test to diagnose it - it is based on the history. If in doubt ask for a referral to a paediatric allergist. In the meantime give the aptamil Pepti one a good chance to work. If it doesn’t resolve symptoms and CMPA is suspected, a completely non-dairy forumla can be tried (though may be poorly tolerated in an older baby).

May be partially hydrolysed. I had a quick look at hipp organic comfort and that seems to be partially hydrolysed too.

I can't do the aptamil pepti now as the GP doesn't think it is CMPA.

I have seen that mamia is virtually the same as aptamil. I guess if it isn't CMPA it could just do the trick.

The GP basically said try another formula it us all trial and error and changing formulas shouldn't do baby any harm. The GPs thoughts were to try the cheapest first then work way up if nothing is resolved.

We already do baby massage. I do the sun and moon and i love you massage every nappy change and cycle legs too.

www.hipp.co.uk/formula-milks/all-baby-formulas-hipp-organic-baby-milk-powders/comfort-milk/

Tbh i have only heard good things about hipp. Its between mamia now and hipp i don't know which way to go. I suppose looking at cost makes sense but i would rather get it right first time and don't care how much it costs if it makes her comfortable.

I had Dr Brown's bottles in Tommee Tippee sterliser - it worked fine. I just had to take the top tray out and pile it all in the bottom. I too used Tommee Tippee (hence having the sterliser) - our you could use Milton sterilising tablets?

I bought a load of Dr Brown's from Kiddicare.com - and with different teats to try what worked best.

Rarfy

In my area GPs cannot prescribe aptamil pepti one or other ehf for cmpa without the baby being seen by paediatrics or an allergy specialist. Frustratingly delays things but at least you can be reasonably sure they know what they’re talking about.

Partially hydrolysed formula may help but ehf (extensively hydrolsed formula) is better and prescription only (unless u buy from an online pharmacy....)

Thank you i really do appreciate all your advice. I guess i try which ever formula im going to swap to and if no better i will go back to the gp and ask for a referral. If its the magic 12 week thing it will have resolved itself by then.

Just come to see dm as its her birthday and she has guests. Passed dd over for a cuddle and first comment is oh god she is pumping loads. Everyone comments on it.

Better out than in!
Our son sleeps on his side the health visitor said if he can get himself there then don’t worry 😉

Imagine same with tummy!

He passes wind non Stop too! Between him and his dad I worry about what visitors thing 😂😂

Yes i imagine once she can get there herself it will be safe enough but she isn't rolling yet but maybe in time will be ok.

Thought i would give and update - switched to Hipp Organic yesterday. It is by no means a miracle cure but already her pumping is more like baby pumps. Still a fair amount but reduced i would say definitely quieter and gentler.

She also just had a poo which was much less wet and explosive as on the cow and gate.

Unfortunately still woke up griping at 6am as per typical!

Great update @Rarfy

Been over a week now on the Hipp and it is safe to say dd is a windy baby but is much happier on the Hipp it does seem to be gentler on her tummy.

I am very near to having weaned her off the colactase drops so we will just be using infacol in the next couple of days and her pumping tends to be in bouts now rather than continuous which is better.

I’ve just RTFF and was about to suggest switching to HIPP milk as my DD was the same on cow and gate, on HIPP she’s a new baby. I’m glad that your baby is feeling a lot better :)