Can anyone help me understand autism?

[cometinmoominvalley]

My DS, who is six, has recently been diagnosed with high-functioning autism, ADHD and Sensory Processing Disorder. This has come as quite a relief actually and makes sense of a lot of his quirks and difficulties that I've had with him. I instantly felt like I must be a better parent than I thought if there is this reason I don't find him easy a lot of the time! He's so very lovely, endearing and funny but he's fully on and all the simple things seem to take twice the effort!

Anyway, I feel like I've sort of got my head around ADHD and SPD. I may even have some form of both of these myself and it just makes sense to me on some level. I know I need to find out more and this will be a learning curve, but where I'm really struggling is the ADS.

I've read about it a lot but I feel like there is so much contradictory information out there, and obviously every person with autism is an individual so there is no 'typical' but one thing I keep bumping up against is this idea of lack of empathy. For instance, a good friend of mine who works with SEN children said she read something once that said autistic children view people in the same way as they view objects.

This upsets me. Empathy is so key, isn't it? We describe psychopaths as being primarily people without empathy but autism is such a different condition. How can they have this in common? It's true that DS behaves and responds to things differently. But he can be so kind. He loves feeling that he is 'helping', he hugs and squeezes me all the time, he is generous. He doesn't always reply when I say I love him but then suddenly will announce "Mummy I love you more than ever". When I was stressing about my untidy bombsite of a flat the other day his response was "I don't care about the mess, I care about you." When I was quarrelling with his dad once(something we tried not to do in front of him - we're no longer together), calmly sat next to me and said that if I was having a bad day I could come and talk to him. He must have only been four at the time. He's also very loving with his friends and gives his one best friend at the moment a hug at the end of school. He even asked me if I had a picture of this friend as he wanted to put it up on his wall

So, while there is no doubt in my mind that he is 'different' in lots of ways (and I do agree with the diagnosis, I feel like I really need someone who is knowledgeable about this, maybe someone with ASD or who has a loved one with ASD to help me understand the empathy thing and what it really means. How can my child be so warm and kind on one hand, and yet apparently have a lack of empathy? I will say that he struggles socially because he often doesn't notice and/or isn't bothered about what the appropriate behaviour is but is that empathy as such? I don't understand.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I want to try to understand what ASD really is and how it feels, and how that's different from neurotypical people, especially in terms of relating to others and I guess loving and caring about others. Is my child destined to be cut off emotionally from everyone around him? That makes me sad for him although possibly he wouldn't know any different.

You will never get the same answer twice.
The biggest learning point for me, is that anything can cause frustration, however big or small it may seem to you.

Be supportive, know when to step away and let the little one scream/cry or kick their way out of a tantrum safely.

Let them know always, that you are there, that you care and that you will try to understand.

Push for all the support you can get...don't take no for an answer if your gut is telling you something.

Follow their lead.

Research food triggers.

Create a safe space in the home for quiet time. It could be a little pop up tent or a gap under a bed.

Happy for you to pm me if you need guidance.

Hi, the lack of empathy thing is a misapprehension with regard to ASD and totally different from psychopathy. It is generally recognised that people with ASD do not lack empathy and can in fact be very empathetic although they may struggle to express this or express it oddly/differently.

For instance, a good friend of mine who works with SEN children said she read something once that said autistic children view people in the same way as they view objects

What a horrible thing to say! From my experience (dd has asc) autistic people are more empathetic and more sensitive. They just show it differently. My dd has showing the correct emotion but it so sensitive. Unfortunately this sensitivity means she gets extremely anxious.

*has trouble showing the correct emotion.

My DB is going through diagnosis at the moment. He is definitely not lacking in empathy, has always been extremely emotionally intelligent and sensitive.

My DD is also going through diagnosis and I would say that she has lots of empathy, but sometimes misreads the emotions of others and attribute feelings to them that they don't necessarily have.

My ExH, who is not going through diagnosis at the moment, but who I think displays a lot of signs of being on the spectrum does not seem to be able to understand the need to be kind to people and to meet the needs of others and I would say definitely seems to lack empathy.

As a friend of mine said to me recently, if you've met one person on the autistic spectrum, you've met one person on the autistic spectrum...

But then, why is there this idea that people with autism are lacking empathy or don't feel the need to be around others?

Ffs
Not at you, but at your ignorant friend.

Autistic people report that they do NOT lack empathy. Many are hyper- feelers who find emotional responses so painful that they withdraw as a form of self preservation. Others report that whilst they understand what feelings would be engendered by a particular situation, they may not pick up on subtle clues about someone's emotion and therefore correctly read the situation. (stress on subtle hints. They would know someone in tears is sad!) For example if asked how someone would feel if a person was talking about something very uninteresting, they would understand that the listener would feel bored. However they may not recognise subtle hints if boredom in an interlocutor such as watch checking, looking away fir increasing periods, etc. The other issue is feeling uncertain how to respond to emotions, and that is not unique to autism but the discomfort is more. For example if a work colleague burst into tears at their desk, the majority of people would feel very uncomfortable but NT people would offer a tissue, ask what's wrong etc whereas an autistic person might feel so uncomfortable that they move away or ignore the situation. It isn't that they don't understand this person isn't an object (ffs again) or that they don't care that the person is sad, but that they don't know how to respond in such an emotionally charged situation.

As a friend of mine said to me recently, if you've met one person on the autistic spectrum, you've met one person on the autistic spectrum... And I get that, I really do. I don't want to reduce anyone down to a stereotype, particularly a negative one, but don't there have to be some pretty strong commonalities for it to be one syndrome? I'm so confused by the mixed messages on this one point because everything else written doesn't seem nearly as contradictory!

It's not necessarily the empathy that's lacking, it's not knowing how to process or display those feelings.

For my son, any worry or negative emotion will make him cry and get angry. He can't always explain or understand what he is feeling but the initial emotion is there.

He also loves other people, is a great talker and doesn't count cards....definitely bucks the completely bullshit stereotype.

I have autism and have a ds with autism. I don't really "get" empathy in that, while I appreciate that someone feels a particular way I often think that I wouldn't feel that way in the same situation in a "get a grip" kind of way. This is mainly because I don't often have strong feelings about things, I am very matter of fact and I don't seek out attachments to others. Ds is the opposite, he over empathises and worries a lot about how others feel. It doesn't mean I don't care though, I care if someone is upset about something I think is trivial I just don't understand why they are upset.

It was explained to me once (by a leading ASC researcher) like this: those with ASC are tuned in differently to the world around them. As though their social antennae are tuned differently.
And something else I’ve learned from living with my son with HFA. When you’ve met one person with ASC... that’s it. You’ve met one person with ASC. You can’t really generalise!
As for no empathy. My DS is hugely empathetic. About unexpected and unusual things sometimes... but very loving, affectionate and empathetic. He also is rubbish at maths and science so I just smile politely when anyone mentions him being really good with computers! 😂

Sorry, cross post!!

The common features in all autistic people are difficulties with social interaction and communication, and difficulties with flexible thinking (parsing speech, changing the mind, dealing with change, managing unexpected situations, handling ambiguity). There is also a difference in sensory processing (a tendency to be over or undersensitive to touch, sound, taste etc).

Those are the only common features in all autistic people.

If the definition of empathy is to understand and share the feelings of another person, I would say that my ASD DS lacks empathy.

He can barely understand what he is feeling, let alone share what other people feel and he is 19. However, that does not mean is is lacking in sympathy. He can see when someone is upset, when they are angry or when they are particularly happy and he can show sympathy or concern to those who are unhappy or angry.

I know other people who are NT and they also lack empathy and this does not make them psychopaths, it just means they have difficulty trying to see things from someone else's perspective.

This link was shared on another autism query thread the other day and I thought it was excellent: the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/

Thanks so much for these thoughtful replies. I love this about Mumsnet.

@HippyChickMama it's really interesting that you and your DS seem to diverge so much on this one. Two opposite extremes almost. Are they both connected to autism, or is the whole empathy thing a bit of a red herring? Not that I'm saying you don't have empathy, just the way you describe yourself as very matter of fact and not seeking attachments.

We're really all as different as any other two human beings.

You'll have to wait and see what his personality is like.

But it would be really lovely for him if you could make sure growing up that you explain a lot to him about WHY and HOW the world works. He'll be so much more secure with you there to guide him.

Professor Bird in Oxford has done a good research study on empathy

www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/features/message-hope-people-autism

The idea of seeing people like objects does sound familiar to me though - I'm wondering if I read something like that many, many years ago. Maybe it's a view that existed in a time before greater understanding was reached and written in some book or article or other.

I know that I had it in my head that autistic people lacked empathy for many years, until I found that important people in my life were actually on the autistic spectrum and I made the effort to re-educate myself.

I'm autistic, and to some will come across as lacking empathy but others entirely the opposite. I get very upset and concerned about things I care about. But I don't do what I'd describe as faux empathy. You know when you tell someone "I'm so sorry", "I'll be thinking of you" etc over something that you won't give another thought too? That kind of thing.

Place marking for later op as I have to go out and get dd from school. Have a ds with ASC.

Just to echo what you've picked up on and other posters have said, it's a common misconception that people with ASD lack empathy. It's a social issue, which means that often people with autism don't pick up on the same kinds of cues that others do in social situations. This can make it difficult to communicate effectively because signals are missed or misinterpreted on both sides. Now you've got a dx I hope you can access some support- the earlier the better as you can get some skills and strategies in place for both of you to help with social communication e.g social stories etc.

When aspergers and autism were considered different conditions (rather than on a scale), it used to be taught (psychology degree late 1990s) that people with severe autism would view people no different to objects. That's a very reductionist and indeed hurtful approach.

In reality, a child on the autistic spectrum may struggle to understand that their thoughts and feelings are different to others. To varying degrees. They will learn ways of dealing with this and for example may find it much easier to understand those people closest to them. That's why very subtle micro emotions or subtle nuances in body language are hard to decipher.

@bluesky thank you for pointing me to that link, very interesting! What it said about 'interoception' (understanding ones own emotional state) really resonated. DS appears to have a very high pain threshold (which has sometimes caused difficulties where we won't realise at first that something is wrong!), and doesn't always seem aware when he's hungry/thirsty/cold etc. I think he's fairly attuned to his emotional states but has a generally happy and robust personality so maybe he infers from that that other people are the same?