Formula feeding - excessive wind and painful cries. Help!

[Rarfy]

Hi

I'm wondering if you knowledgeable people may be able to help me with your expertise as i am struggling to get any joy from my health visitor.

My 6 week old formula fed baby is really struggling with her feeds and it seems to be much worse at night. She is on cow and gate.

She will happily take about 2 ounces (capable of doing 5 easily and has done) but after that becomes uncomfortable squirming around, arching her back and painful cries. She coughs and hiccups during her feeds and also sounds very phlegmy but only when feeding. During the day i can usually get her to continue and finish a 5 ounce bottle but at night she drifts off and it is better for both of us to let her sleep.

I have been around enough babies to know that something is not quite right but i'm not quite sure what. She has terrible wind and pumps almost constantly and they are loud and smelly and she grunts and groans before pumping. I have spoken to my dm about my concerns who has had 5 dc and lots of gdc and she has confirmed she has never known a baby pump so much and even she is starting to think there is a bit of a problem.

So with all that said above, any ideas? I thought refulx. Dr kindly prescribed gaviscon which we tried for 3 bottles and the 3rd feed was the worst she has had.

We have already moved upto mam size 2 teats which didnt make much of a difference really.

We started on infacol last night.

I am wondering if she has a problem digesting lactose? I am tempted to try a different formula but know it's not good for them to chop and change and can't decise whether a comfort forumla or just a different brand, possibly aptamil? Please help.

My health visitor basically says no to everything but i can't bear seeing baby in what looks like pain. Feeding should be q nice experience.

I would make a GP appointment and ask about special formulas and whether referral to an allergy specialist would be advised.

It doesn't sound like a brand issue and given the smelly farts I probably would avoid comfort as this is designed more for reflux.

My DD1 had bad reflux and reacted really badly with wind etc on gaviscon so was taken off it and given ranitidine. Dd2 had silent reflux but was put on a special formula quite early as she had other issues from birth and wasn't gaining weight.

I found infacol definitely helped with wind and also gripe water is great, so worth trying those. It is very hard and I do recall it being worse around the 6-8 week mark. Don't be afraid to go back to gp again if things don't improve. We seen a pretty quick change after starting ranitidine but wind wasn't our main issue vomiting was. It could be a milk allergy in your case.

We changed to comfort milk when DC3 had the same problem, it definitely improved but didn't completely fix the symptoms. She was a nightmare for trapped wind, we had to burp her after her bedtime bottle for over an hour otherwise she wouldn't go to sleep and right up till she was about 18 months! She grew out of it eventually thank goodness!

Thank you. Can you use gripe water and infacol together? We havent actually seen a gp yet just a telephone appointment. We are there on Friday.

I just don't know how we will get to Friday if the screaming continues. I was crying last night she was so distressed.

She doesnt seem typically colicky from what other people describe. A cuddle does seem to soothe her and she has no problems sleeping lieing down. It does all seem to centre around the feeding.

Our DD was a very refluxy baby (vomitting for 6 months, eugh). Infacol and Gaviscon were a waste of time for us. We used Aptamil Comfort with Dr Brown's bottles, but it was trial and error with finding the teats that worked for us. Eventually, it worked, still vomitted, but not endless screaming 24/7. It's so hard and soul destroying, but it will all fall into place eventually.

Sounds like CMPI or silent reflux. CMPI often has same symptoms as silent reflux so I’d take a trip to the GP.

DD1 symptoms were blood and mucus in stools so very clearly CPMI and specialist prescribed milk resolved it very quickly.

12 week old DD had been presenting a lot of symptoms from very early on that you describe. GP has had her on specialist milk from 2 weeks and I’ve been using either infacol or gripe water. It didn’t make any difference so I don’t think it’s CMPI for her. She’s been on Losec Mups medication for silent reflux now for just over a week and it seems to have really helped. She screeching cries on occasion but nothing like before. I sympathise - it’s hell until you find something that works.

My dd doesnt vomit really. Now and again she will spit up a little bit but not every feed.

The issue definitely seems to be connected to the pumping i would say and difficulties getting her wind up.

Our feeds take an hour with all the winding which in itself i am told is quite a long time and the health visitor at drop in seemed a bit concerned about that.

Neither of my two vomited. There doesn’t tend to be any vomiting with silent reflux. Google the symptoms and see if they fit.

The symptoms did seem familiar tbh for silent reflux but the gaviscon didnt help.

Infacol seems to be helping but she is still not really loving her bottle and grunts and groans a lot.

Thank you for your advice and support gave me the condfidence to see the drs. They think lactose intolerance or cows milk allergy. Just awaiting a call to see if they are prescribing the cows milk allergy formula or whether i should try the lactose free first.

Hello OP both my DDs has CMPA which is an allergic reaction to cows milk protein. If your baby is having a reaction to the formula it is far more likely to be CMPA than lactose.
Both my DD's had excema that eventually covered them, excessive vomiting, terrible wind and eventually bloody stools. They were also very uncomfortable and cried/screamed a lot!!!
Both times I found it incredibly stressful and both were hospitalised however DD2 was diagnosed a lot sooner than DD1.
With my first I was told to try gaviscon, change formula, try different teats etc and wasn't taken very seriously at all until she dropped off the centile charts due to the amount she was vomiting and pooing.
Both were prescribed anti reflux medication as well as prescription formulas. Both ended up on an amino acid formula called Neocate. It is v expensive so drs are reluctant to prescribe. It completely changed our lives and we had completely different babies within a few days.
If you know something isn't right please see your GP and ask them about trying either a hydrolised or if that doesn't work an amino acid formula. It's incredibly stressful OP but go with your gut if you know something is wrong and be persistent. Good luck and congratulations on your baby

Both my DD's like yours were never able to drink more than a couple of ounces at a time and even that was a real struggle and would result in terrible wind.

With DD1, nutramigen made a massive difference within a few days. DD2 was perceived similiac alimentum and it didn’t do anything so she was then prescribed Neocate. I don’t think DD2 is CPMI as it’s only when she was perscrubed Losec Mups for Silent Reflux that she stopped writhing in pain and screeching after every feed. The milks can take up to 2 weeks to work though you should hopefully start noticing a difference within a few days if it is CPMI that’s the issue.

You are describing my DD who has CMPA. She also got a rash, was pooing like you wouldn't believe and constantly had bubbles in her tummy that I could feel with my hand, like vibrations - her tummy used to growl all the time and everyone would say that it was hunger but I knew it wasn't. She was put on aptimil pepti 1. HV actually told me in the past that you can actually buy it yourself by ordering from chemist (used to be £15 for half tin) and that it's a good way to help work out if it will make a difference. Something to consider if the doctor doesn't want to prescribe anything.

We also moved to MAM bottles and used A LOT of infacol when she was first born. As an aside when she had Cow and Gate it made her projectile vomit out of her nose (her sisters were fine on it). We've trialled Hipp organic since (to see whether the allergy has gone) and whilst she's still got the allergy it doesn't seem quite a severe, so it could be a good one to try if it's not an allergy.

Thank you everyone. Dr has prescribed aptamil pepti 1 which is for cows milk allergy. They felt her tummy and said it was full of wind which is no surpise to me. I always thought her tummy was very bloated kind of bulges out at the side and although she is putting weight on well and following the curve she is only 9th percentile so wouldnt expect a big round tummy really.

I really hope this formula makes a difference. Do they tend to grow out of CMA?

Tbf if it is this then her symptoms do seem quite mild mostly surrounding wind and tummy problems i am lucky in that we dont have lots of crying episodes or restless sleep but it's still upsetting seeing her unhappy and uncomfortable.

I really hope the Aptamil Pepti works and I'm glad the GP listened to you.
There are plenty of other prescription formulas if that isn't quite right for your DD.
I hope your DD starts to feel better soon and you start seeing an improvement.

Thank you @Daisychainsandglitter i will bare in mind the other formulas!

Sorry to keep coming back to this thread. Been 2.5 days on the aptamil pepti and altho she does seem a littlw happier in herself i am now starting to wonder if it is the infacol that has made the difference?

Is it possible i have talked her into this? All the symptoms below are still there apart from the crying really and even that is occasionally.

I just don't know what to do but i would rather her not be on specialist milk if she doesn't actually need it.

It could be Transient Lactase Deficiency, where they don't produce enough of the enzyme lactase to process the lactose properly. Try Colief.

Thanks @MoMandaS that's what i'm leaning towards.

Have you used it? I am just wondering what to do about the night feeds as i have looked it up and can see it says to add it to bottle 30mins before feed which will be easy through day but not so sure about night?

Is comfort milk essentially the same thing as i have read something about that and the lactose being broken down?

Has anyone had a baby who has colic and hiccups? I only ask because i did a quick quiz on the infacol site which said if she gets hiccups it's not colic which seemed a bit strange.

Give it time OP. It takes time for the milk to get out of their system.
Also bear in mind that Aptamil Pepti is one of the mildest hydrolised formulas so although she is slightly happier it may still be causing her discomfort and wind.
It may be that your DD needs a more broken down milk like Neutramigen or an amino acid formula like Neocate. Only time will tell I'm afraid but it's likely your Dr will ask you to trial it for at least 2 weeks.
In answer to one of your earlier questions, if she does have CMPA, they often grow out of it. DD1 was 2 and DD2 is 16 months and can now tolerate milk in cooked foods.
I hope your DD becomes more comfortable soon and you find a milk that works

Also not sure if i have mentioned before now but she was born at 37 weeks if that has an effect on anything?

If i want to continue with the aptimil pepti i would need another prescription from the GP tomorrow as the tin we have will be empty by then so i am thinking of asking the gp for a conversation or appointment tomorrow and discussing with them. The new milk isn't causing any problems apart from maybe runnier poos but i know it must be expensive for them to order in.

I used it with two of mine (sons), one breastfed and the other formula fed. It made a big difference, but in the ff one I changed his formula from Aptamil to Hipp Organic - different balance of whey and casein or something - and that helped too. I used Comfort with my daughter because she had reflux and it's thicker so stays down better. Not aware of any other properties but maybe that also has the different balance of proteins? If I remember right, whey has more lactose associated with it. It's all a good few years ago now though so I could be wrong about that!

As for night feeds, you could put them in fridge and warm when needed - think it takes longer to work though.

Thanks @Daisychainsandglitter you seem very knowledgeable on CMA.

My gut is telling me her symptoms aren't enough for it to be CMA. The reason i didn't think she was colicky is because although she cries she is easy to settle. From what i have seen about colic usually they are hard to settle but my DD soothes fairly easily it's just when she has had painful cries it is distressing.

Also she hasn't been like this since starting FF at 2 days old it is definitely something that seemed to develop over a week.

Before switching to aptimil pepti and before things seemed to chance prior to this she was taking between 4-5 ounces most feeds apart from the night ones and she was starting to sleep a little longer at night. Now she is only taking around 3 ounces. She has had maybe 1 or 2 4 ounce feeds in the last few days.