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Original poster

Shamima Begum has her citizenship revoked

999 replies

KenAdams · 19/02/2019 18:48

How can this happen? I thought they aren't allowed to leave a person stateless? Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just wondering how they managed it.

OP posts:
ReflectentMonatomism · 20/02/2019 10:41

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nomad5 · 20/02/2019 10:47

I think Javid did this a bit hastily and there's been uneven treatment of her Vs other IS fighters who have returned home. She may in theory be entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship but what if they say no to her request (as well they might!) on the same grounds. Then she would be stateless. And the UK government would get itself into a legal mess/court cases over that (which costs taxpayer money, remember).

Also her poor baby is who I really have sympathy for. I assume this means that he too is not a British citizen now? What if he is rendered stateless if eg she can't pass on Bangladeshi citizenship.

I don't really have any sympathy for her (I do have sympathy for her child) but the rule of law needs to be upheld. Not Javid making hasty decisions that could lead to a bigger legal mess just because it plays well in the media.

Asta19 · 20/02/2019 10:48

On the point of her supposedly much older (he wasn’t) husband “grooming” her. If you’ve seen all the interviews she herself said her and the two other girls filled out a form requesting what type of husband they wanted and SHE specified someone between the ages of 20 and 25 and English speaking, and that’s what she got. She never spoke to him before that. She CHOSE her own husband. There’s a lot of false information on this thread and as such I can’t take any of those people’s views seriously because they haven’t informed themselves of the facts.

I’m glad she’s had her citizenship revoked. I see no good reason why she should be allowed back here.

Hollowvictory · 20/02/2019 10:50

According to the BBC 100 other people have had their citizenship revoked in simi circs.so this isn't a one off. People seem to think she's free to pop to the airport and board a plane to Bangladesh or wherever. She isn't. She's in a camp where she is likely to stay for a couple of years at least. She isn't on a plane out if there any time soon.By next week she'll be forgotten, hopefully.

nomad5 · 20/02/2019 10:51

And as someone else pointed out, Assad's wife is also British. Why aren't we stripping her citizenship too, as the wife of a person who has committed heinous crimes?

Is it because Assad's wife is rich?

JRMisOdious · 20/02/2019 10:56

Thanks Reflectent*, makes sense now.
Blimey, that was a bit of a moonlight flit. He was on the news just a couple of days ago, looking quite frail and inviting sympathy - until the hitherto seemingly sympathetic reporter introduced the subject of his US flag burning activities, when his whole demeanour suddenly changed. Very murky pool altogether, methinks.

BifsWif · 20/02/2019 11:10

Is Assad’s wife trying to return to the UK?

KingHenrysCodpiece · 20/02/2019 11:15

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/shamima-begum-could-the-plan-to-revoke-her-citizenship-be-stopped

So if I understand correctly, he hasn't revoked her citizenship based on actual dual nationality but on the prospect she's eligible to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship. He's used special powers which apparently has only been done once before.

This is not then the same grounds as applied to the 100 or so other fighters who had attempted/returned.

So he's reaching, in an attempt to please the media who really run this country now it seems. Lining himself up for possible leadership one day. It's a case of Cometh the hour cometh the man...

Rainbunny · 20/02/2019 11:17

I think another sign of her true feelings is the fact that she remains loyal and happy to be married to a Dutch ISIS terrorist and has said she might try for Dutch citizenship so she can wait for her husband if he is sent back to Holland to jail. With parents like this that baby doesn't stand a chance I'm afraid. There is zero chance that she will be be reformed IMO so I hope social services keep a close eye on the child.

I suppose at least one good thing about her returning to the UK is that her husband will never be allowed to set foot in this country and if the Dutch authorities have any sense she will never be allowed to set foot in the Netherlands.

Humptydoo · 20/02/2019 11:20

I hope she’s brushing up on her Dutch then because she’ll never get citizenship without it Grin

KingHenrysCodpiece · 20/02/2019 11:21

She has 0% chance of gaining Danish citizenship. Best chance is Bangladesh of she wants to get out the camp anytime soon.

WH1SPERS · 20/02/2019 11:23

She has 0% chance of gaining Danish citizenship

Agreed. Especially as her husband is Dutch Grin

Littleoakhorn · 20/02/2019 11:23

The mob mentality on this thread is disturbing.

The point is, it doesn’t matter whether you like/ don’t like Shamina Begum, the rule of law has to be applied. Did the home office apply the law correctly and fairly? What are the legal precedents set by their actions? Could the same legal action be applied in different circumstances (e.g. someone you don’t hate) with consequences that you would oppose?

DangermousesSidekick · 20/02/2019 11:25

I wondered about a comparison between Nazis and IS upthread, wondering if the International War Crimes tribunal would not be interested. Following that further, it is remarkable how in days gone by Britain would have chased those involved with Nazis to bring them back to face law and justice. That's what we should be doing with this young woman. Instead what we hear now is how much it will cost to bring her back, cost too much to have her imprisoned, send her to some other much poorer country instead, or even the Netherlands a country which she herself has no ties to.

How we have fallen.

ReflectentMonatomism · 20/02/2019 11:33

Agreed. Especially as her husband is Dutch

She doesn't have a husband. Or at least, not one which many, if not any, of the countries she might want to enter will recognise. She was married in a religious wedding taking place in a warzone, under the authority of an illegal non-state organisation recognised by no-one, with the extra wrinkle that she was under-age in the eyes of most of the jurisdictions who might care, and the jurisdictions in which she was not under age would all want parental consent.

She's married in no sense that matters, legally.

KingHenrysCodpiece · 20/02/2019 11:41

Indeed W1SPERSBlush

Humptydoo · 20/02/2019 11:41

She's married in no sense that matters, legally.

This too.

The Dutch government doesn’t even recognise solely Muslim (or Church for that matter) weddings carried out in the Netherlands. They have to be conducted by an authorised celebrant.

This means that the poor baby’s not Dutch either.

But anyway, I know heaps of foreigners married to Dutch people. The mountain of paperwork non-EU people have to go through is unbelievable. And one way or another, she will shortly be non-EU.

WH1SPERS · 20/02/2019 11:41

Thank you Reflectant, I didn’t pick that up. So she’s not going to the Netherlands or Denmark !

diplodocusinermine · 20/02/2019 11:42

Hollow - I agree, way too much publicity which will act as a dogwhistle for any 'disenfranchised' youth who will turn her into a heroine.

And yes, I am aware of the irony of posting about the situation when I think she's getting far too many column inches Hmm

sashh · 20/02/2019 11:44

My understanding is that she has Dutch citizenship through marriage.

I doubt she would have registered her marriage and I do not know if Nikah is recognised by the Dutch government.

Also, depending on Brexit there not much point removing British citizenship and leaving her with an EU passport.

ReflectentMonatomism · 20/02/2019 11:49

The Dutch government doesn’t even recognise solely Muslim (or Church for that matter) weddings carried out in the Netherlands. They have to be conducted by an authorised celebrant.

If she can produce a marriage certificate from a recognised country, then no-one outside that country will enquire as to the mechanism by which it was granted. But she can't, because she hasn't got married in a recognised country. She's not very bright, is she?

Humptydoo · 20/02/2019 11:50

My understanding is that she has Dutch citizenship through marriage.

I can categorically state that she doesn’t. You do not get citizenship by marrying a Dutch citizen.

MillytantForceit · 20/02/2019 11:52

She is not married.

Jumping over an ISIS broomstick is not a marriage.

drspouse · 20/02/2019 11:54

Would the baby be Dutch, assuming they can prove it's his (I hate saying that but it sounds like it's possible it's not)? And if so, would she have a right as a parent of a Dutch citizen?

ReflectentMonatomism · 20/02/2019 11:56

My understanding is that she has Dutch citizenship through marriage

To be clear: she isn't married in the eyes of the Dutch government, or any other government. Even if she were, very few countries grant citizenship on the basis of marriage alone. In the case of the Holland, she would need to apply for residence, live there, pass an exam (taken only, and exclusively, in Dutch) and provide extensive evidence of links to Holland. She fails on every step of that. She isn't a Dutch citizen, she is not eligible to apply for Dutch citizenship, and has no way to solve either of those problems.

Even if she somehow conjured up a recognised marriage to her husband, she cannot enter Holland, as to do so would require as a minimum a British passport which she has not held for some years. She travelled on, and then destroyed, her sister's passport, which has in any event almost certainly expired. In practice, Holland is perfectly entitled to use its version of "not conducive to the public good" to refuse her entry, EU citizen or not, and it is highly likely they would do just that.

It would take someone with a heart of stone not to laugh at her current surprise that this is playing out the way it has:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/shamima-begum-a-bit-shocked-that-uk-has-revoked-citizenship