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Shamima Begum has her citizenship revoked

999 replies

KenAdams · 19/02/2019 18:48

How can this happen? I thought they aren't allowed to leave a person stateless? Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just wondering how they managed it.

OP posts:
AnchorDownDeepBreath · 19/02/2019 20:13

I think this has all been very well played... she was found in a refugee camp, she's given many interviews to British broadcasters, she's been unrepentant in all of them. I don't think there's been a single one where she hasn't said something inflammatory. She may only be 19, but she will be old and wise enough to know when to close her mouth, she has lived with ISIS.

I haven't figured out why yet, but this is all too convenient. Something to rule up everyone, block out the Brexit news and then an awful attempt at uniting people again? More news to stir up terrorist fear and racism?

Morally I think she should be allowed to return but practically she can't. I wouldn't want her to live near me, I wouldn't want her socialising with my children, if I'm honest. I don't know if she'd be an increased risk but my gut says that, whilst she's radicalised and accepting of ISIS methods, she is more dangerous. She wants to come back because it's safe here, but she's helped to make it less safe through her actions.

Taking her child away wouldn't be as easy as some on this thread seem to believe; either.

Intohellbutstayingstrong · 19/02/2019 20:13

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NunoGoncalves · 19/02/2019 20:13

First and foremost it needs to be established whether she's commited crimes

She joined ISIS didn't she? That's a crime.

GrubbyHipsterBeard · 19/02/2019 20:13

genevieva

If she is a naturalised citizen then that changes things legally if I understand correctly - the provision on statelessness doesn’t seem to apply where citizenship obtained by naturalisation and they can get citizenship elsewhere. I had assumed she was born a British citizen.

AlaskanOilBaron · 19/02/2019 20:14

Yes, absolutely. Why should Britain expect other countries to deal with teenagers raised and radicalised in the UK? It doesn't matter what colour they are, although you obviously think it does.

I find this astonishing. If an American came here and raised their child in a 'conservative' Christian home, there'd be no shortage of people queueing up to lay blame with the parents and American influence if said child wound up some kind of loony right-wing terrorist, a la Timothy McVeigh.

Of course swap the nations around a bit and the inferences change completely.

It's not exactly not a Bangladeshi problem, is it?

InfiniteSheldon · 19/02/2019 20:14

She has named her child after an IS military leader and boasted of it, hardly repentant is she.

Saylav · 19/02/2019 20:15

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DangermousesSidekick · 19/02/2019 20:15

As long as she's in prison somewhere it can be the UK better than Bangladesh for me - we can afford it more. We don't do capital punishment here and she is not worth changing that for.

We're all 'brainwashed' by our cultures. We all make choices too. One does not stop the other, or every violent person in peace time and war - think young Nazis - should be let off. If there's no such thing as criminals then there is no such thing as law.

lboogy · 19/02/2019 20:17

I'm
Disgusted by this decision. She was a 15 year old child who made a terrible decision. She has not harmed anyone nor enabled anyone to cause harm (as far as is being reported) . Yet prolific paedophiles and rapists get to retain their citizenship. They have done far more harm than a 15 year old confused child. She may be an adult now, but at 19 we were all idiots and doubtful we all made good choices.

Toughtips · 19/02/2019 20:17

Misti is just shit stirring. No other argument than "why should she be anyone elses problem"

The death penalty would be enough. She can go live with her precious god then can't she.

For now, one less terrorist supporter in this country isn't a bad thing.

thelikelylass · 19/02/2019 20:18

This is very interesting to watch as it unfolds. I remember how long it took to get Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza out of this country, the long legal wranglings - years of of it.
I thought I cared about this girl and her situation but I am surprised at feeling quite happy that she will not be returning here.

Wildcate · 19/02/2019 20:18

If the child is brought back here it ought to be for adoption imo.

Another thing that confuses me

I have 2 adopted children. The incidents that led to them being removed from their birth family run to 40 pages.

Crucially... social services had to collate evidence (a lot) from third parties... doctors, refuges, teachers, specialists... in order to make a case to the judge that the child should be removed and adopted. In the end, it took a severe non accidental injury (again, evidenced by several third parties) to reach the threshold for removal.

How would that be achieved in this case? There are no third parties who would/could provide that evidence.

If the threshold for removal was met, the extended family would then be assessed. While the parents may not be suitable, an aunt/uncle might be.

Assuming none of the family was suitable.... as an adoptive parent I think I’d have to think twice about being able to support this child through the identity issues they’d be strongly likely to have.

pusspuss9 · 19/02/2019 20:18

@mistigri I'm going to keep asking this:

If this British-raised and radicalised teenager is too dangerous to allow back into Britain, why do you think it's OK to put Syrians or Bangladeshis in danger?

Because they have sharia law and that's what she wants to live under. She likes it. She likes Islam. She's no danger to them because they do what she likes.

DangermousesSidekick · 19/02/2019 20:20

There's a lot of evidence that the mother ran off and joined a known murdering terrorist organisation Wildcate.

Marcipex · 19/02/2019 20:20

So, assuming the Home Secretary's decision stands , what about the baby? Is he a British citizen, because Begum was when he was born? Or what?

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 19/02/2019 20:20

I think this is a very dubious piece of dogwhistle politics which will stick so long as she is represented by a community lawyer for community people who would be more at home doing conveyancing, but will collapse like a house of cards if a good international human rights lawyer gets involved.

That said, I can't say I find "de-radicalising" terribly convincing. Her family are religious fanatics, and the track record of "de-radicalisation" is non-existent. Plenty of terrorists who have actually done terrorist shit have had prior engagement in such programmes, and there is no evidence, and precious little anecdote, which says they work. We can't intern her. We can't jail her long-term because she hasn't committed serious crimes for which we can provide UK-standard evidence in a UK court. Extra-judicial killings aren't quite cricket.

I presume the hope is that the Bangladeshi government will do nothing, and is in any event not capable of doing anything, so she will remain in Syria. Then either someone will kill her or the Iraqi, Turkish or maybe even Syrian authorities will try her and either execute her or imprison her for life.

It's cynical, dog whistle politics and it makes us look like Trump, but unfortunately it's hard to see what the plausible alternative is. She would be out free in the UK in a few years, the chances of her being "de-radicalised" are approximately zero and she would make a very serious rallying point for extremists. This is a bad, ugly, cynical outcome, better only than all the even more ugly alternatives.

This is what I think. But better written.

lrh3891 · 19/02/2019 20:21

@pusspuss9

Yes I absolutely agree. There have never been any terrorist attacks in Bangladesh or Syria, have there?

Oh no, wait...

ALongHardWinter · 19/02/2019 20:21

Glad to hear this. No less than she deserves.

PenniesforNothing · 19/02/2019 20:22

As a single parent I'm on the bare bones of my arse and incensed by the ridiculous justification of this girl's crimes. She is terrorist/an apologetic terrorist sympathiser. Why are people justifying her return? So the taxpayer can pay for her trial, housing, armed protection, etc? What about ordinary, law abiding citizens, struggling to get by?

What about the families of the victims of UK terror attacks? What about the millions of war refugees whose livelihoods, cultures, homes and families have been destroyed by the Islamic State?

This is NOT whataboutery, she made a choice, he has no remorse, she's wedded to Islamic extremism. IMO she has no right to live here.

Mymycherrypie · 19/02/2019 20:22

At 19, bad decisions were getting caught drinking in the park. Not joining ISIS. Not thinking that beheading is ok. Not nicking your sisters passport and running off to a war zone.

She enabled her husband who did fight. Who knows what else.

Intohellbutstayingstrong · 19/02/2019 20:24

She may be an adult now, but at 19 we were all idiots and doubtful we all made good choices

Yes.... because deciding to drink 20 shots and sleep with random blokes is the exactly the same type of idiotic choices as joining ISIS and publically condoning terrorist atrocities and the murder of innocent people.

Kintan · 19/02/2019 20:25

If this British-raised and radicalised teenager is too dangerous to allow back into Britain, why do you think it's OK to put Syrians or Bangladeshis in danger?

From what I can gather she was raised in a closed Bangladeshi community that happens to be based in Britain. I think it’s a bit disingenuous to use the term ‘British raised’ in this context.

Bouncingbelle · 19/02/2019 20:25

I feel sorry for her baby and would welcome him into the country. But she blatently does not regret her actions.

Saylav · 19/02/2019 20:25

Well she's rearing her able fighter now (that's the meaning of her baby's name).
She'll be as well off there as I don't think she'd be allowed to keep him over here. Well, hopefully because she'd actually be in jail. Her parents raised a terrorist so they wouldn't be suitable either.

Mymycherrypie · 19/02/2019 20:26

To anyone defending her - How many beheadings had you watched at 15?