Has anyone else's DC ever just had a consistently and randomly unpleasant class depsite the rest of the school being nice?

[JessiCake]

I'm just a bit fed up with DD's class, and a bit sad for her that it's so rubbish :(

It's not teacher-specific. The issues have been the same since Reception and they're now Year 2. DD's teachers have always done the best they can (I feel) with a challenging group.

It's nothing (at least not usually) anything worth actually mentioning to staff. There was some actual bullying early in Y1 (not of DD) but it got sorted out tbf.

It's just general and fairly constant low-level unkindnesses, a couple of the girls in particular who seem to rule the roost and can be very cutting, a general lack of interest in learning so the teachers have to spend a lot of time on discipline which disrupts things for the kids who actually want to learn.

It's odd because my DD has friends with brothers and sisters in other years and there has never seemed to be a similar culture in other classes.

There are some very very big (and not terribly kind) peronalities in DD's class and I think maybe that sets the tone for how the entire class interacts?

Sigh. Just wish it was different for her. She's very gentle and not terribly assertive and the class isn't a good one for a child like her (or quite a few of the others, tbf, but there's a small majority that dominate).

It just strikes me as odd that an entire class in an otherwise lovely school can be so randomly not-lovely for no apparent reason.

Anyone else had this?

Sometimes there just is a class that don't gel as a group and it's nobody's fault (other times there's a definite fault).

In dd1's first school her class were really "challenging". There were a lot of children with issues, too many for one teacher and I've TA to deal with. They were a one form entry school, so there wasn't another class to move anybody to. We moved at the end of year 1 and I'm so glad we did. DD had become very quiet and withdrawn, which I later discovered was because she had learnt not to tell the teacher about being kicked/nipped/hit by certain children because she was the one who ended up being told off!!! Even though she was the one with bruises.

We stayed friends with some of the gentler children from that class after we'd moved. One by one all the gentler children left that school to go elsewhere because nothing was being done. That class was eventually down to 18 (from an original 30) because of all the families choosing to go somewhere else.

Interesting MsAwesome... I think on balance it's simply that this class doesn't gel... it's an odd mix of Leaders (none of them very kind children as I've said) a LOT of Followers (who worship the Leaders) and then a bunch of other also-rans, my DD amongst them, who don't really form a homogenous group at all and so therefore there's no counter-balance to the dominating personalities.

DD is certainly wary of a few of them (mostly the girls) but as I say it's not because of any specific, quantifiable events, it's far more just that frankly they're not very nice a lot of the time and she steers clear. They're still all very young obv but I know a Reception mum at the school and she's astonished when she hears my DD's experiences as even the Reception kids have learned to behave in more thoughtful, kinder ways than DD's lot!!

Oh and sorry just to clarify further, none of the kids causing strife have 'issues', at least not the kind that you'd automatically think would make it challenging for staff. It's a very 'naice' school and ironically the most consistent trouble-makers are from the 'naicest' families, mc and comfortably-off. Not saying that prevents 'issues' but certainly these are not the kids coming from unstable home backgrounds etc.

Yes my DD has the most awful class. At the same time my DS had a totally divine class, same school. In the end we moved her and left him. She’s now at secondary with lots of the girls and boys who were in her first class and she keeps a wide berth, which is much easier to do at secondary, as they’re still fairly awful

So interesting Believability as obv you have direct experience of 2 kids at the same school. I only have DD so although I do hear about other classes I obv I have no actual experience of how they are. I just get a sense (often from the weary looks the teacher gives the kids as they come in!) that this is a stinker of a class and that nobody quite knows why.

Odd how just say 3 or 4 in a class of 30 can set such a tone.

Yes it’s funny that this happens sometimes. P7 at our school are terrors! Always have been. But I think as well they were labelled as a bad class early on which hasn’t helped.

Muchas also interesting!!

If anything in this case, everyone kind of goes out of their way to avoid pointing out what a bad class DD's is!... there's a bit of an understanding, I think, but nobody quite dares to voice it! It's why it's taken me almost 3 years to sort of work it out in my mind as, because nobody mentions it, you sort of think 'oh, it can't be a BAD CLASS, surely there's no such thing as that'.

Dd1's class had a few quite unkind children in it at primary school, but her secondary class is fine.
Dd2's primary class were ok. Her secondary class are not unkind but a bit naughty!

If this is a one-form school, so no scope for classes to be mixed up, and goes up to year 6, I'd really be considering whether to move her, like the poster above did. You don't want to be feeling like she's having a rubbish school experience for another 4 years. A negative social experience can really impact on a child's learning, as well as their self esteem. Is moving schools an option?

Yes DD was in a class from P1-P4 which just didn't work. I caught the P1 teacher on a bad day and she said she was struggling with them because they just didn't get along. This was a lovely and very experienced teacher so I figured if she couldn't handle them then I'd better have a plan! So I encouraged DD to join clubs with children who were not at her school and that insulated her from the worst of the mean behaviour as she didn't rely on the class for play dates etc

Individually the children were all lovely but together a disaster

Dandelio, see as I actually think about it, DD's class seems to have the perfect (!) ratio of unkind children to naughty ones!! I think I could handle either but not both! And the 'follower' kids fit into both camps, because they'll go along with some of the cattiness without really thinking about it, and they'll go along with the silliness/messing around without really thinking about it either. That takes account of roughly 20 out of the 30 in the class, leaving the other 10ish a bit forgotten and lost (or on the receiving end of the cattiness!)

liverpoolone, it's 2 form entry and they do mix them up in Year 3. So we only have another 1.5 terms of this particular class to go, I guess. If things don't improve after that I think I would probably have to think about moving her. Just feeling a bit defeated by it today after DD coming home with another couple of stories about bad behaviour and one girl being frankly horrible in a non-specific low-level way... again...

Yes.
It's been a long 7 years of ups and downs, generally just shitty dynamics.
Same as you describe, a few very strong personalities setting the tone. You can tell almost immediately when they are absent as things tend to be a lot pleasanter even when one of them is away.
Roll on high school.

Chrysanthemum, that's what I find really interesting, that the kids can be lovely individually but together it just doesn't work. Sort of morbidly fascinated by why!!!

In our case in fact you couldn't call them all lovely but there are some broadly very nice children who just seem totally in thrall to the leaders; get them out of the classroom and the nice ones are still nice, but very easily-led.

Our teacher this year is very experienced indeed and I thought she'd sort of crack it but she hasn't seemed to quite get on top of it. Y1 teacher was younger and less experienced but Reception was also an old hand and struggled.

YES! Mokepon that's it!! I can tell immediately when one of them is away as DD reports much more chilled co-operation in the playground and I can just TELL it's been a better day!

Yes! DS has a class, it isn't dreadful but it's just a bit rubbish, a small group with challenging behaviour, everybody else gets on reasonably well but it's just a bit, meh. Same with the parents.

DD's class, 2 years below, is fabulous, all get on really well, DD has loads of friends, I've made some fab mum friends who we go on nights out with, round to each other's houses etc, completely different!

I think it's just the luck of the draw, some classes and groups of parents gel better than others!

Some groupings just don't work. To be honest part of the problem was the parents who were super competitive and just bonkers and I think that infected the class.

I did talk to the school when they were mixing the classes for P5 to say I didn't want DD in a class with specific children who had become pretty mean due to the constant fighting for status. Are there children you'd rather your child had in their class next year?

I expect it can be the same in workplaces too. There must be groups who don’t gel surely? I think most teachers would say that there are some classes where the dynamic works and some where it doesn’t and you can’t always find a reason for it. It doesn’t always work to mix up classes either, even if you’re able to.

Yes, it does happen. Not that it makes it any easier when it's your child though.

Sometimes it just takes a particular teacher to spark off something with them. Other times it's reorganisation, hoping for maturity and trying to control the leaders and step on the followers.

Chrysanthemum, yes there are a couple I think she'd benefit from being in a class with from the other class, nice kids she would like to play with more but she's not confident enough to try to join just yet. I think if they were in her class she would have more 'support' iyswim. I think the school will probably find a way to separate out the trouble-makers next year so she will still have some of them in whatever class she's in but just thinning the group may help. I hope!!

Foxy yeah I think that's true that it can be workplaces too. Actually my uni course had this, our subject group in our year were just such a random bunch and we never really gelled, some people fell out really badly too as there was just never any real fellow-feeling there.

Group dynamics have always fascinated me but it's a bit shit when you're on the inside of a rubbish one!!

Actually I have had this at work my team was miserable but one person left and was replaced by someone much more positive and the team is completely changed. So just thinning out the group can really help

Yes.

DS's (second) primary school class was a toxic class. Even the HT acknowledged the class was problematic. There were a couple of very dominant personalities, a clutch of followers and a couple of social pariahs, one of whom was my DS. The dominant children set the tone with their one-upmanship and sneering. They decided who was 'in' and who was 'out'.

It's the attitude of the big personalities in the class that determines whether the class as a whole gives of a kind or unkind vibe.

That's what I'm hoping for Chrysanthemum - the thinning!!!

Your phrase 'fighting for status' rang a lot of bells with me as I think that's a lot of what it's about. There are some very 'cool' kids who muck about and do a lot of strutting in the playground and I think most of the class would sell their grandmothers to be a part of that cool!!

OutWith - what you say rings bells with me too.

DD isn't a social paraiah - YET - but I could definitely see it going that way when they're older if the class doesn't change when it mixes up. There is a LOT of sneering, from one girl in particular. I've seen the interaction at whole-class parties and I can see that DD is just invisible most of the time to about 2/3 of the class as they're all so busy trying to get attention from the roughly 3-4 Leaders.

They're also quite a physical group in terms of size, sportiness, and I think that leads to competition that DD (small and NOT sporty!) can't even hope to enter into.

It's definitely something to do with characters who aren't that happy in their own skin but who are very vocal about making sure nobody else can quite relax too!!

DD’s class in her first primary contained three very challenging little boys that most teachers struggled to control. I was a classroom volunteer and one of her teachers would put them in one group and hand them to me to supervise, which in retrospect was very out of order. One is now the local thug and one is dead.

In DS’s primary the devil class was the one above his, very much controlled by two absolute little terrors. On quite a few occasions they tried to bully someone in DS’s year, but DS was fortunate to be in a very tight group of nice kids, so they all stood up to them en mass.