Is this PND?

[Seline]

I didn't think it would happen but I think I may have developed PND. I've posted before about my very traumatic birth of my twins but the brief summary is I had a placental abruption at 26 weeks and negligent care led to DD being starved of oxygen and requiring extensive CPR, me nearly bleeding to death and being told to prepare myself for her not surviving. She did survive but several times i was told she wouldn't and she and her brother were in NICU for three months. We currently don't know if DD has any effects from this.

I was just happy it was over and relieved we all survived so didn't think I'd get PND as I didn't want to dwell on it. However little things are making me question it. I keep crying, all the time. Over anything. It's as simple as forgetting to put the washer on. Last night my husband found me crying in the shower. I keep snapping at him and it's an overreaction to really minute things that wouldn't normally bother me. As soon as the twins scream or cry I feel like it's a sign I'm doing it wrong. I'm also really weird about people seeing the twins and won't let them out my sight at all and won't let many relatives hold them or see them. I can't logically explain why as I know they won't do anything negative to them, but the thought of someone else other than me, my husband or my mother holding them fills me with dread.

I wasn't like this with DS1. I used to let random old ladies have a cuddle when they asked for gods sake. Now I won't let anyone near us.

Is this PND? And if so when will it go? I hate SSRIs so don't want to go down that route.

Didn’t want to read and run. You have had a very traumatic time OP. Be kind to your self and don’t underestimate that.
My dc are older now but the hospital where I had them offered a debriefing service with a specially trained midwife. If it exists for you could you access that.
Maybe see some advice from your midwife/health visitor before going to the GP? I totally get what you mean about SSRIs though
I hope things feel better soon.

Thank you. I'm not constantly unhappy more just overwhelmed at times. It may just be sleep deprivation. I have been thinking about a debrief but I'm not sure if I want to talk about it or go back into the ward as it holds a lot of bad memories. When the twins are older and I have more time I'm planning on fundraising for the nicu so I'm trying to frame it asa positive, the nixu saved my twins rather than the ward that nearly left us to die.

I've taken SSRIs before as I've had depression before but I don't really like them. I don't get on with CBT either so I don't know what anyone can do really.

It sound like post natal anxiety which is very understandable given everything you've been through.

I would talk with the GP and HV who can support you through it. CBT is very helpful in these situations. I would give it or some sort of talking therapy a try (again). You can be fast tracked with small children.

What helped last time you had problems with your mood?

Last time I just had to wait for it to wear off. I do have anxiety in general but it's mainly due to having ADHD that went undiagnosed until my late teens so I ended up thinking I was crap at everything and not knowing why I was struggling. Since treating the ADHD it's been much better. Until now.

Anyone else have any advice?

You've had a really tough time, so it's totally understandable that you're struggling a bit.
For me, snappiness and tearfulness were signs of pnd. That doesn't mean they are for you though, and it may well be sleep deprivation.

The bottom line though, is that you don't feel right, and it's making you worry. On that basis alone, I would have a chat with your GP and see what support is available.

💐💐

Does PND feel different to regular depression? Because I don't feel the same way I do when I've had depression before. There are similarities but I'd describe this as more of a vulnerability than feeling emotionally numb.

I agree with others, there's no harm in having a chat with your GP about how you're feeling. PND can manifest in so many different ways. Sleep deprivation also plays a big part and you must be particularly sleep deprived with twins

I had post natal depression and anxiety after a bad birth and I was very tearful. I can remember DH regularly finding me in tears when he got in from work, but when he would ask what was wrong, I really struggled to articulate what it was. I was also super anxious and if anything didn't go to plan e.g. DS waking up early from a nap, I would panic, think I'd done something wrong and be certain that the rest of the day would be messed up. My GP referred me for counselling, which I personally didn't find that useful, and an online CBT course which really helped me.

I had PND with my first. He had a few health issues which triggered it.

I had depression in the past and it was similar but with PND i mostly felt overwhelmed, snappy, emotional, obsessive, constantly out of my depth and a bit mad tbh rather than numb. It's was awful. Especially as nobody really understood. Everyone else seemed fine and I was sinking.

My gp was lovely and I got a great HV through them that supported me through it. Talking therapies helped.

Probably. It could also be PTSD although I think they’re almost one and the same.

Crisis mode survival is instinctive - what comes next is equally as hard so please don’t feel like it’s something you’ve failed in. Honestly, I often wonder how people don’t get PND rather than why people do.

And yes - it does feel different. It’s often about health anxiety and constantly fearing the worst for your babies. Although to be honest, I wonder if that’s because it’s so much more common for women with poorly children.

I can remember DH regularly finding me in tears when he got in from work, but when he would ask what was wrong, I really struggled to articulate what it was. I was also super anxious and if anything didn't go to plan e.g. DS waking up early from a nap, I would panic, think I'd done something wrong and be certain that the rest of the day would be messed up.

This is exactly what is happening to me.

with PND i mostly felt overwhelmed, snappy, emotional, obsessive, constantly out of my depth and a bit mad tbh rather than numb. It's was awful.
Yep this too.

Also I keep thinking I'm going to lose my babies somehow. Either they'll die or get kidnapped or someone will decide I can't look after them or they'll just disappear. It's really irrational.

I think you have PND as a result of trauma. It’s really common. I obsessed over losing my baby. I’d wake all times of the night just to check she was breathing. I had panic attacks when I thought she wasn’t. I was terrified that every experience was something that would affect her forever. That every time she cried she was flooding with cortisol - all stuff that just doesn’t cross my mind with my other children at all.

Omg I have the same fears about them crying particularly DD as she's the one who nearly died DS2 was still poorly but nowhere near as bad.

Crisis mode survival is instinctive - what comes next is equally as hard so please don’t feel like it’s something you’ve failed in.

This is very true. DS was in hospital for a week recently and it was awful, but instinct kicked in and I just focused on what absolutely needed to be done. It was a real shock how hard I found it coming home and getting back to normal life. The logical part of my brain was telling me I should be happy as the immediate danger was over, so I was cross with myself for feeling differently. Similarly, after giving birth you keep telling yourself you should be happy as you have your baby, and the fact you aren't piles on the guilt and anxiety. Add in the fact your twins were in hospital and you're now adjusting to them being at home, it's no wonder your emotions are all over the place.

God I can't stop crying. Every time I put one of them down the other screams. And screams. And screams. Cuddling ds2 because he always misses out as his sister is often more fussy and ds2 seems sad today but now DD is screaming despite me holding her for an hour. She's fed and changed. I've put her in the rocker but still she screams

Seline I actually think PND is almost inevitable in situations like yours. And mine. Get all the help you need to get better. One of the traps of PND is convincing you that you’re not ill, you’re just not coping - that’s how it ensures it’s survival. Don’t let it.

I keep thinking that. I just keep thinking maybe I'm just a rubbish parent and the reason I had so many miscarriages before the twins was because I'm not "meant" to do this. I recognise that that's a stupid negative thought but it persists.

Those thoughts are part of the illness. Your doing brilliantly. Twins hard, more so if they arrive in difficult circumstances.

Would you be open to having Home Start come and help out? Practical support makes all the difference, especially with twins.

I'd rather have family help out because I'm very introverted and nervous around strangers. Usually my mum helps out a lot which is great. I think today is particularly touch because dS2 who is usually an easy baby was prescribed gaviscon but it's made him constipated so now he's really angry and upset.

I'm very sure it will pass but it's just so bloody frustrating. Doesn't help that it's freezing cold so don't feel comfortable taking the babies out in the pram as they were so premature.

Oh @Seline I wish I could reach through my phone and hug you.

That does sound like PND. It could also be extreme sleep deprivation. Have you had even one night of decent sleep? Anyone would have low mood and erratic thoughts if they were constantly woken and put to work- this is why the United National has rules about allowing prisoners enough uninterrupted sleep. It is literally torture.

If it is PND- There are amazing treatments available.

I promise promise promise that you will not always feel this way. Soon you will feel so much better and one day you will wake up and you will feel yourself again.

Did you post a little while ago about your in-laws being pushy? How is that going? X

I slept last night but every other night I've had about an hours sleep. I always get teary when sleep deprived so I do think that might be the issue more than anything.

Thank you. I know it'll go away eventually I'm just disappointed because I was really looking forward to bringing the twins home and yet the lack of sleep is really making it difficult.

Yes that was me. Luckily they've backed off now but not before we had a huge row. Incidentally I didn't feel like this until they did that

@Seline that's no good about your in-laws throwing a strop. people can be so selfish about new babies, and they happily stampede their way over a fragile new mum to get at them. I had a similar experience with my in-laws, and I also think it impacted my mental health and my whole experience of new motherhood. It's really damaged my relationship with them now because I still look at them and think, 'you saw me struggling and instead of helping you took advantage.'

Sleep is key. Are you breastfeeding or formula? Can you divide the night with your partner and get a decent chunk of sleep? For me personally I found if I had 4 hours in a row, I was ok the next day. 4 in a row was better than 7 broken, if that makes sense.

Have you seen a doctor about your sleep and your moods?

I think what you're describing is what's known as 'intrusive thoughts.' I recommend googling the term. It might just help to read about how common they are for new mums (sleep, hormones, the sudden responsibility make us all vulnerable to this.) and realise you're not alone.

Those babies belong with you. You were meant to have them. The worst is behind you, they wouldn't have let your babies out of hospital unless they were strong and well. They will get bigger and tougher every day and you will have less to worry about every day.

You've got this, but don't do it alone. Talk to your doctor.

That's how I feel about them. I don't think I can ever forgive the fact they tried to bully me when I was in a vulnerable situation. They always do things like this and give unsolicited advice including really dangerous stuff like make a nest of towels in the cot for them to sleep in one of them told me I was obviously not trying hard enough as I stopped expressing at 10 weeks, the reason I stopped was despite Dompreidone and pumping every 2-3 hours my supply was dropping to the point I couldn't even get enough for one feed a day. Yet they still felt the need to say I obviously wasn't pumping properly (I had a lovely nicu lactation consultant helping me the entire time so I know that I was).

We sometimes try shifts and it does seem to help. Broken sleep is what I struggle with too. I've seen the doctors about DD in case it's silent reflux causing her to scream and I've got a prescription for ranitidine for her now so hopefully that'll help. Don't really know what they could do for me as until the babies are older they won't sleep much and I don't think I'll feel better until they're sleeping.

Thank you. Some days I feel fine today is just particularly stressful

Sometimes getting a night of sleep after a few nights of none can make you feel very low. I find it’s the inconsistency with sleep rather than how much I get.

You’re doing so well. You will come out of this. Don’t be afraid to really batten down the hatches and aim for damage limitation. This is all transient, but you need to make sure nothing permanent happens as a result. Safeguard your relationships and your sanity. Aim to be calm and kind above everything else - to yourself and your babies - all the other stuff can fuck off.