High staff turnover and one awful person who stays there for years

[Annoyance]

Years ago I worked somewhere with a toxic person whose behaviour caused me so much stress that I ended up becoming very ill so I had to leave my job.

I did say at the time that she was the one causing all the stress for everyone else.

I've just had a look at that company's website and apart from the partners I barely recognise anyone's names, but this toxic woman is still there doing the same job.

This really doesn't surprise me at all. Maybe lots of people keep leaving because of her. I'm strangely fascinated. Even one of the long-serving, long-suffering people seem to have finally left.

I think this happens a lot. I used to work in a team of 9. Everyone had been there for years. Then a new manager was appointed, a really unpleasant woman. I honestly think she was probably a sociopath. Since then, so in five years, the whole team has left and been replaced several times, but manager is firmly in place.

And yet most of the time nothing is done about it.

It's odd. I often wonder how it all looks from HER managers' perspective.

My toxic person cut swathes through management. She couldn’t deal with authority at all and drove her immediate managers out of the job. Anyone who stood up to her was accused of bullying. It was absolutely ridiculous to watch the same situation playing out over and over and being mishandled by the top level of management. I don’t think the two bosses could actually grasp the idea that you can be bullied by a more junior staff member. Particularly one who is adamantly convinced that she’s the one being bullied. So many talented people left.

I definitely recognise this story!

Where I used to work a man like this joined. Other people started leaving in spades.

I left because of having DS1 and him being disabled and needing my care, so ostensibly not because of work-twat. However the team leader took me aside and asked if he had anything to do with it and I admitted I had no desire to try and make a return to work ‘work’ if I’d have to work with him.

I’ve since chatted to the team leader socially. She is now firmly of the opinion he is a problem from a staff turnover point of view. However, he is a hard worker and now, a long standing member of the team (in a team with few long term members, because people keep leaving and don’t stay) and in professional terms he’s good at his job. To force him out would be bullying. She feels very stuck I think.

Shame because when I joined, the longest serving team member had been in the department 40 years and a lot of them were 20 years plus. Now, with 10 years under his belt he is by far the longest serving (after the team leader who I’m pretty sure has merged her DNA with the system and will never leave).

Yes I recognise this too!

One of my former managers had 100% turnover. The longest anyone stayed was two years. She will literally be there until she retires. I can't imagine what the board is thinking.

I have experienced this at an old place of work. A temporary member of staff became permanent and everyone started leaving.

When I left I told my manager I was leaving because of this person. I wasn't the first and probably wasn't the last. I loved my job but once this person started I began hating it. So glad I am out of that place as it turned really toxic.

I had an awesome boss. He was moved sideways in a reshuffle, and the whole team pushed under another guy.
Within 2 months, every single person who had been moved to new bloke had tendered their resignation. Half of us had worked for him before..... Go figure.

Yes all too familiar.

I had a toxic boss. She took over my team and I was her direct report with a team of 9. There were 3 other managers that had a team of 25 between them also reported to her.

One manager left after a month and 2 weeks after her replacement started she was crying at her desk over the behaviour of toxic boss. Turnover went sky high so senior manager came to talk to us. I balled my eyes out at our 121 because I was just so beaten down. I left shortly afterwards and did an epic exit interview with HR detailing every single incident including how she told our teams that they were paid too much for their work

I hope she's on MN and recognises herself. Toxic doesn't come close to describing her.

I totally recognise this! I started a job where I was the senior manager and this person reported into me, and had recently been promoted to manager. I have never in all my career come across such a difficult person!
Her moods dictated the feeling of the whole office, although she could be amazing at her job, I’d see glimpses of it maybe once a month. If I praised her for doing a good job she expected a pay rise or some sort of immediate reward.

This was her first ‘proper’ job and had been there for almost 10 years and her sense of entitlement was something I’d never come across before. She was also a single mum who, despite having a huge family support network, was always late/having to leave early or pretending her child was ill.

I discovered after she left the company that she tried (and failed miserably) to get the rest of the team to put in official complaints about me to get me fired, and boy could she lie!

Rather telling that the team went on to much better things once the toxic witch left.
I wonder if these people even know they’re toxic?!

I had a career change and unexpectedly landed the job of my dreams, which turned out to be working alongside a toxic colleague. She was the first person I had met in any area of my life that I just could not get on with. She thought I'd somehow cheated my way into the job and therefore robbed someone more deserving of it. The fact that I was a foreigner seemed to especially grind her gears. She sniped at me at every opportunity, went into my private work files, told lies about me to senior management, etc etc. Some of them absolutely outrageous, eg covering up her own mistakes by saying, "Limp did it".

I made it a month before breaking down in the loos at work, where I offloaded to another colleague about what had been going on. She was not surprised in the slightest as the two people who had preceded me had quit for the exact same issue.

I was there around five years on and off with maternity leave included, during which time I made several complaints that were swept under the rug. Both my maternity covers quit and after I found another post in a different department, my replacement quit too.

I still have no idea why they have tolerated her so long. Even my former manager confessed to me she didn't think much of her standard of work and was frustrated that she had to keep hiring and training new people. Apathy I guess. It's been easier to keep her and placate her workmates than go through the process of firing her.

I’ve seen this before but these people are difficult to fire.

That's the problem. A lot of these toxic people are difficult to get rid of because many of them are good at their jobs, just exhausting to deal with and always causing drama in the office.

I often find it hard to comprehend why senior management doesn't do anything. But you are all right: the reasons given above make sense.

It’s easier to keep on the right side of these people. That’s why everyone pussy foots around them.

I have see it from the other side (I work in HR) and it's not always a straight forward:

1. we had a manager who wasn't well liked. The rumour in the Department was that 'hr' brushed it under the carpet but the reality was that nobody has complained about the manager.

2. strong management is often perceived as bullying, particularly in cases of under performance. You get staff and teams who haven't been managed properly for a long time. A new manager comes in and is accused of bullying when all they want to do is manage effectively. The manager becomes frustrated and ends up shouting at the employee in public and then ends up being the bully.

3. nobody wins. I have rarely seen a formal case of bullying where either party comes away unscathed. In most cases I have been involved in, the issues aren't straight forward and there has been fault on both sides.

4. the bullying manager can be under pressure from their manager to perform and so the pressure is coming from the top down.

It is sad, isn't it? I learnt the hard way to never ignore my gut. If at all possible I will never work with a toxic person again. I'm my case karma did prevail though.

EmpressJewel The toxic person in my case wasn't a manager. She was a PA to one of the partners.

I was bullied by a toxic colleague and she wasn’t a manager either.

She was on the same level as me.

She tried her best to get me fired/ pushed out of the dept we were in, and threatened to tell our boss that I’d pushed her, after I’d stood up to her.

It is frustrating and I think part of the reason is employment rights on getting rid of people are so strict now you can't get rid of the toxic ones easily at all with fear they will take it to a tribunal. Strict employment rights are great for most but unfortunately mean some people can get away with being toxic and bringing the whole work environment down to the point the good ones eventually leave It's normally the toxic ones who can and will exercise their "rights" to the full as well.

I didn’t push her, btw.
I did nothing to deserve what she did to me. Even now, it still affects me.

Oh I know there’s nothing you can do usually

There’s some stat that shows most? people leave their job due to a manager they dislike

Yes. I think sometimes personal relationships at the top play a part sadly.

Just saw not a manager

Yep it can be someone who is a junior too