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Original poster

Please help me with my daughter... I can’t do this anymore

40 replies

MaryPoppinsPenguins · 14/01/2019 22:30

She’s 8. She was a perfect sleeper at 3 weeks... I felt like I just won the jackpot. She would sleep 12 hours, we were so lucky.

At about 18 months we moved house, and our onward purchase fell through and we ended up living at my mums for six months while we sorted everything.

This ruined her, living in a room with us was fine at the time. But once we moved into our new house and I gave birth to DD2 in the same week, it turned into a nightmare.

It’s been a vicious circle of controlled crying, reward charts, telling her off, extreme kindness. Letting her sleep in our bed fell to the easiest option to not wake DD2.

Now she’s 8. I can’t cope. She said she can’t sleep without noise so we used to put an audio book on an iPad under her bed after storytime... then we realised she was just getting that iPad and watching videos. I bought her a light machine. A white noise machine, a night light, now an Alexa that does an audio book she can’t watch videos on.

Now nights are ‘I hate you’ and actual hysterics. Poor DD2 is kept awake by this. We are finding it harder and harder and last night due to such tiredness I put her in my bed. DD2 (now 5) wakes up so exhausted due to disturbed sleep because of this and I just can’t do this to her anymore.

She gets so hysterical. I can’t even describe it. She’s so different from herself. She’s a perfect child in life, no one would ever expect this of her, she’s so well behaved.

I’m exhausted. DH is exhausted... even our dog looks exhausted. This morning I carried her downstairs and dressed her asleep because she cried on and off until 3am. Then I had to go to work and pretend to be a functioning adult!

I thought she’d be so tired. She wasn’t. She’s still crying. It’s 10.30.

Please tell me what to do. I’m out of ideas. I feel like I’ve tried everything. I’m so tired.

OP posts:
negomi90 · 14/01/2019 22:33

GP

Beaverhausen · 14/01/2019 22:37

Hi op sent you a dm.

madcatladyforever · 14/01/2019 22:38

I don't know if this video is any good at all but I remember seeing this documentary and wondered if it might help in asking your GP for a referral.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Babies & sleep Children's sleep Families Sleep
Original poster
MaryPoppinsPenguins · 14/01/2019 22:40

I didn’t even consider the GP... I will ask though, thank you x

OP posts:
FloatingthroughSpace · 14/01/2019 22:44

Ross Greene - plan B from "The Explosive Child".
In a nutshell, plan A is when adults try to impose a solution (eg reward charts). Plan C is where you drop the demand (eg let her sleep in your bed). Plan B is where you sit down with her and ask her what's up with the not sleeping. Then you ask for her suggestions on how to solve it. You listen to every suggestion and consider them thoughtfully. You can reject them. For example if she says 'i want to sleep in your bed because I get lonely' you answer respectfully "well yes, I can see that would solve it from your point of view. Unfortunately it does not work for me and dad because your body is getting bigger and me and dad don't get enough sleep when you are in the bed, and that makes us tired which is dangerous for driving and going to work. Can you think of any other suggestions?"

This method allows her to practice skills of negotiation and compromise, and to take ownership of any plan you decide to try. You need to go in with an open mind (avoid a hidden plan A, which is where you have a solution in mind you hope she'll come up with) and really think about any suggestions she offers. You can also offer suggestions if she gets stuck, but she also can explain why they wouldn't work.

It sounds complex but it's ideal for this sort of entrenched behavioural issue.

IamIwas · 14/01/2019 22:47

My dc was the same and now has medication which is a godsend. Start with gp then referral to Camhs.

flumpybear · 14/01/2019 22:48

We put our 6yo DS in our bed to start and move as my DH gets in to bed ... he then goes to his room ., mostly but not always

FloatingthroughSpace · 14/01/2019 22:50
Ozziewozzie · 14/01/2019 22:51

I have no advice really but completely sympathise with you. I’m tired just thinking about you all.
Hv or GP definately,
Has your dd communicated to you what she feels the issue is, or is it just general upset, anxiety?

Has she ever spent s night without you, ie friends or family member? I’m only asking in case the upset is for your benefit as opposed to a specific anxiety.
With my boys, when they were younger I’d sit beside them after a story until they fell asleep. A couple of nights later I’d do the same but s little further away, and so on. She may have a type of separation anxiety at night, knowing she’ll be alone, darkish, night time etc.
You could also try Walkie talkies but restrict it, so she can use it if she’s anxious in her room to talk to you downstairs. That way she’s not feeling alone and not screaming. You could suggest you take it in turns every 2 mins, 5 mins. She could sit in bed with torch watching the hands go around on her clock, she can initiate chat with you, then it’s your turn to initiate chat with her, the watching the clock may calm her and make bedtime a more pleasurable experience (without waking the household) Smile

Ozziewozzie · 14/01/2019 22:55

Forgot to mention, gradually extend time 2 mins each way, 4 mins each way, 6 mins each way 8 mins and do fourth, just gently do she doesn’t really ‘feel the gap getting bigger’

I hope this offers some help x

dancinfeet · 14/01/2019 22:57

my advice would be to put DD2 in your bed, not DD1 - she's getting what she wants when you do that.
You may need to seek some advice from your GP, but it sounds very much like she knows she has control of the situation at bedtimes and has the whole family over a barrel through sheer tiredness and is turning it into a battle of wills. Can you make good bedtime behaviour a condition of receiving something she wants (such as a trip somewhere, or time on the ipad during the day?) I think at 8 she is old enough to understand that poor behaviour at bedtime equals missing out on treats the following day. Assuming of course that there is no reason for this, such as genuine fear of the dark or general anxiety, of course. At 8 she should understand that the planned trip to the park / the beach / her friend's house is now not going to happen because mum (or dad) is now too tired to take her because she was screaming most of the night. She needs to understand that her actions have consequences.

Also, what about inviting a friend for a sleepover - would she scream and cry if she had a pal stay over? Yes they may talk and giggle and stay up late, but hopefully she won't be carrying on in her usual way, and it may just break the cycle, and it may give you a decent bargaining chip if she gets a return invite- i.e. she can only sleep over at her friend's house if her general bed time behaviour improves.

Original poster
MaryPoppinsPenguins · 14/01/2019 23:07

We’ve done sleepovers and she’s been great, we might be the only family who rejoice in having 4 kids to sleepover! Return sleepovers however we always have to pick her up because of crying, without fail. Even at my brothers house who she knows probably as well as she knows us!

My parents have had her overnight when I’ve worked and they’ve experienced the same... my mum is very calm and sits and copes, but I guess that’s comes with only doing it for one night? As a result, my DD always asks for her when she’s hysterical.

OP posts:
willstarttomorrow · 14/01/2019 23:09

OP I work in a deprived area of a city in which schools/nureries/Children's centres have pooled resources to offer amazing early help support. This is a disclaimer because unfortunately this may not be available to you in your area and I work in one of the few cities thay have not reduced the budget for Child services.

Your DD is in school so start by talking to them and they should offer support through which ever framework they use (Early help plan here). At the very least they have access to the school nurses, if not family support workers. Sometimes it needs someone with a fresh pair of eyes. This is behavioral and sometimes we need an outsider to look at the behaviours objectively and advise. The hard bit is following plans through, unfortunately often it gets worse for a short while when they 'kick back' but it then gets better. Better now than later though, good luck!

Isadora2007 · 14/01/2019 23:11

Could she share with her sister? Would she want that?

Or we had similar from my dd age 7 until 9/10 on and off. What helped eventually was that she had to try to get to sleep alone with the story CD and nightlight etc but she had a small bed on our floor (a spare mattress) that she could come through and sleep on without wakening us all up.

DishingOutDone · 14/01/2019 23:14

Have you tried melatonin gummy bears OP you can get them online; but yes I agree GP - that documentary madcatlady linked to above is interesting. If necessary (because of the waiting list) I wonder if you could afford a few sessions with a private child psychologist?

I let DD2 sleep in my bed until she was 6, she only stopped sleeping in my bed as I broke my arm and had to sleep sitting up for a month. I used to just do whatever I needed to so that everyone was asleep in one bed or another but she was never a good sleeper and now as a teenager she has suffered from extreme anxiety. I reckon its all linked.

giggly · 14/01/2019 23:23

I wouldn’t think CAMHS would accept a referral as there is no underlying mental health problem. Soup like you need to go back to basics with boundaries for bed and good sleep hygiene. There is loads of online resources available. Maybe even get her onto a kids mindfulness course where she can begin to learn about her emotional health.
Medication is usually only prescribed for sleep problems associated with NDD.
Sadly and without any judgement you have allowed the situation to get worse over the years and I’m aware of how hard it is to address behaviour change when your knackered. Good luck op

giggly · 14/01/2019 23:24

Excuse the typosBlush

Original poster
MaryPoppinsPenguins · 14/01/2019 23:30

I guess I just don’t understand why it’s so difficult when DD2 sleeps amazingly with the same routine.. (despite the disturbance of DD1!)

Lots of amazing links and ideas, thank you x

OP posts:
scubadive · 14/01/2019 23:35

I think your daughter has developed a fear at night time and forcing her back to bed will exacerbate this. Ignore dancinfeet that would be emotional cruelty, your daughter is clearly not manipulating anything as she can’t sleep wherever she goes, she must also be exhausted too.

I would sleep in the same room as her and take it in turns with your husband to sleep there, can you get twin beds in her room? Or I would allow her in your bed and you and your husband take turns to sleep in hers. She does not need training at the age of 8 she isn’t a dog she needs love and support, please don’t listen to the tough love posts. I think you sound like a lovely mum trying all options, don’t worry about it, she will grow out of it and who says it’s wrong to share rooms/beds many cultures do.

Want2bSupermum · 14/01/2019 23:41

It sounds a lot like anxiety. DD1 has this. It's very common when you have autism apparently. Doctor told us to use melatonin and then use therapy to work on the anxiety.

It's not easy and as a parent who has been sleep deprived for 5 years now you have my sympathy. If I were you I would be getting to the GP and speaking to school because this is normally a symptom of something else.

t1mum3 · 14/01/2019 23:41

Agree that it doesn't really sound like an issue for CAHMs - unfortunately they are a bit too overloaded to help with stuff like this I think? I think melatonin is helpful when there is an underlying disorder but not otherwise (and can have side effects).

I think @FloatingthroughSpace's suggestions are on the money. She's old enough to take some ownership of this now.

Other things to think about are taking the pressure off her to sleep - e.g. she can play on her bed with her soft toys for as long as she likes - and attachment objects - e.g. putting something that smells like you in bed with her

BurpsandHustles · 14/01/2019 23:43

Agree that with scuba.

I am not keen on the idea that an 8 year old child has family over a barrel what for! So they can all have a hellish bedtime??? Wow what fun!!

Don't like the idea of punishment either.

Plan b sounds good as does little bed on your floor. Maybe even don't mention bedtimes!

ree348 · 14/01/2019 23:50

Gosh I feel for you and it sounds like you've tried lots of things.

Have you tried going to a sleep consultant ? Lots of people I know have had good experiences with them for their toddlers and I'm sure they could advise on your daughter too.

Good luck

Want2bSupermum · 14/01/2019 23:59

The facebook group precious little sleep was very helpful for my youngest.

I don't agree that CaHMS should be discounted. There might be an underlying issue. Let the professionals (school and GP) decide if a referral is warranted. It's so much easier to start managing MH issues early on. Quite frankly the caseload of CAHMS isn't the OPs problem. Her DC not sleeping is and if a psychiatric assessment is needed best get on the list now.

You might find the teacher has been dying to say something to you but hasn't. That happened to us for a whole academic year. It's more common now for that to happen because teachers often get the blame for these issues.