Please help me with my daughter... I can’t do this anymore

[MaryPoppinsPenguins]

She’s 8. She was a perfect sleeper at 3 weeks... I felt like I just won the jackpot. She would sleep 12 hours, we were so lucky.

At about 18 months we moved house, and our onward purchase fell through and we ended up living at my mums for six months while we sorted everything.

This ruined her, living in a room with us was fine at the time. But once we moved into our new house and I gave birth to DD2 in the same week, it turned into a nightmare.

It’s been a vicious circle of controlled crying, reward charts, telling her off, extreme kindness. Letting her sleep in our bed fell to the easiest option to not wake DD2.

Now she’s 8. I can’t cope. She said she can’t sleep without noise so we used to put an audio book on an iPad under her bed after storytime... then we realised she was just getting that iPad and watching videos. I bought her a light machine. A white noise machine, a night light, now an Alexa that does an audio book she can’t watch videos on.

Now nights are ‘I hate you’ and actual hysterics. Poor DD2 is kept awake by this. We are finding it harder and harder and last night due to such tiredness I put her in my bed. DD2 (now 5) wakes up so exhausted due to disturbed sleep because of this and I just can’t do this to her anymore.

She gets so hysterical. I can’t even describe it. She’s so different from herself. She’s a perfect child in life, no one would ever expect this of her, she’s so well behaved.

I’m exhausted. DH is exhausted... even our dog looks exhausted. This morning I carried her downstairs and dressed her asleep because she cried on and off until 3am. Then I had to go to work and pretend to be a functioning adult!

I thought she’d be so tired. She wasn’t. She’s still crying. It’s 10.30.

Please tell me what to do. I’m out of ideas. I feel like I’ve tried everything. I’m so tired.

Agree with Scuba.

We have issues with our 4 yr old. My own mum would be horrified if she knew just how often he slept in our bed whilst my husband squished in his tiny single. But he's safe and secure.

It's not about 'winning' this. It 's about giving your daughter her safety and security back. She must be absolutely shattered too. How is this affecting her school performance?

At age 8 she is old enough to actually talk to.

The more different things you try, the more anxious it will make her and the more likely she will be to want to try something different.

I’d do a back to basics plan and stick to it closely as far as possible. Super nanny had a good technique where she was sitting in her room on the floor with her back to the child. And gradually moved towards the door and then finally out. Each night she started a little bit further away.

Good luck

sorry but I stand firm behind the idea that either she has a genuine anxiety or fear about bedtime or the dark, or something else that is unknown to the OP - in which case she needs help, not repercussions. Or, she might just be playing up for attention, it's not always about fun BurpsAndHustles it's about control. She may be keeping her parents awake knowing that they will eventually give in and allow her into their bed if she keeps it up long enough. Sometimes children just don't want to do something that is necessary.

The question that the OP asked was how to deal with this situation, as she can't do this any more? It's having a long term effect on her and other family members' sleep and well being. They are all exhausted, included her poor little DD1 who has got herself into this pattern of playing up at bedtime. It's affecting her DD2 as well. At what point do the needs of DD1 become more important than the well being of DD2? Sleep deprivation is awful, and I really feel for the whole family, but especially the younger daughter. What is the younger DD learning from this? That if you cry persistently you get to spend the night with mum and dad, but if you are good and quiet you have to stay in your own bed. Sometimes you have to be a little bit tough to be fair. Tough love doesn't mean don't hug your child or tell them you love them, or comfort them. It means giving them clear boundaries of what is acceptable to you, and most importantly those boundaries are going to vary from parent to parent, family to family. Some families are quite happy co-sleeping all together, others not. Surely if this was a solution the OP was happy with, she wouldn't have asked in the first place? It's completely possible to be firm with your child whilst still being loving and kind. I'm not suggesting leaving her to cry it out, or shout or anything along those lines.

OP - hope you manage to have a really good talk with her, to find out if there is something she is frightened of, that you can work through as a family to help her have a better night's sleep.

What’s she like at school op?

My dc’s sleep problems were the start of emotional and behavioural difficulties which then surfaced at school. She had awful night terrors when she was very young and then huge meltdowns at bedtimes when she was your dc’s age.

I went to gp then paediatrics then Camhs. The medication helps so much I don’t think we could live without it. I don’t think you should let her suffer every night. Maybe there are no underlying issues but agree with pp to let the professionals decide. Also there is such a waiting list for Camhs in most areas that is best to get on the waiting list sooner rather than later.

Thanks everyone.

She’s great at school, I’d say she’s above average but not gifted. She works hard and is very well behaved. She’s always been such a good girl in every aspect other than sleep.

I do try to talk to her, she is so reasonable in the day or the next morning, but just can’t be spoken to at night when she’s crying.

I went through a stage around 9 where is got into such a panic over sleep. It was a combination of fearing dying in my sleep and general anticipation of the next day. I could never articulate either to my parents but I fought tooth an nail o stay awake. In the end the doctor recommended liquid piritonx the type that makes you sleepy. I was enough to break the cycle. That was about 20 years ago mind.

She sounds incredibly anxious about bedtime. If it was about control, you'd see this aspect in her daily behaviour but from what you say she's a good kid.

What happens when you let her sleep in your room? I think you néed to take a step back to take a few step forwards here. The goal for now should be a calm night - whatever that takes. Accept that you may need to sit with her for now. Once you've established a calm evening you can work towards not sitting with her etc but I think you've got a long term job on your hands.

So here is a kid who at 18 mths had a really unsettling time of moving house. Probably not long after she started to sleep in her room in the old house.

At that time, sharing a room with mum and dad would have been great, because despite the upheaval she had you with her for practically 24/7. This happens for 6mths, during a quite vital part of her life! And it gives her huge comfort to know you are within arms reach.

Then you move house. She has her own room, in a new, unknown house. You are no longer there while she sleeps, you leave her to sleep by herself, she has to wait for you to get to her when she is upset.

Then you have a new tiny human who has "taken her spot" and started sleeping in your room, where she was for so long.

By the time she is 2 and a bit she has slept with you, had her room in the old house, slept with you, had a new room in the new (strange) house and a new sibling. And now, she is still holding onto "something" 5yrs on. She has created this scenario in her head at 2 that won't go away! And she doesn't know how to make it. Each night she becomes that 2yr old who doesn't know how to cope. Please do not think I am judging or shaming you. My daughter didn't sleep for 8yrs unless she was in bed with me and now we know she has a sleep disorder related to asd, so there is NO judging here.

Sleeping with you didn't ruin her, please do not think like that!

When dd is struggling I always remember "If I am struggling with her behaviour, she is also struggling too, and probably more"

I echo the suggestions of a GP.

but just can’t be spoken to at night when she’s crying. Don't even try to talk to her at night. Be present, be her calm but she will not know what is going on and why this is happening. You don't know that, how can she?

This isn't going to change overnight, even with melatonin (lifesaver for us) she is too upset and it isn't going to work. At dd's most stressed times, she can easily override the effects of melatonin. You need to find a way to keep her calm, motivate her to want to go to bed and work on it. You say both girls have the same routine, is that at the same time? Consider splitting times if so. So you can focus on just her.

Don't even try to talk to her at night when she is upset

Does she play in her room? If not, encourage it. It may mean that you have to spend time in there with her.
Do you use her room as a time out space for punishment? If so, stop. This will go towards the negative feelings around bedroom.

What's her bedtime routine like?

id let her sleep in with you for a bit so you can catch up on sleep, or on the floor of your room. Either that or get a CD player with some audiobooks, or leave the radio on.

You know you are coming to the last few years when she will even need you like this at all. Shes only 8. I know it probably seems really old because youve got a younger one, but shes still very little in the grand scheme of things.
You dont teach a child to overcome a massive anxiety by telling them off and keeping on forcing them to be alone. My advice with parenting is to roll with the punches on stuff like this.

Hi OP - I've been following your thread as we're in the middle of something similar. How are you getting on?

This could be us - except my dd is 5. I also can’t cope with it anymore. Following this thread with interest.
I suspect anxiety in our case too and like you op our dd is wonderfully behaved during day and you’d never suspect.

My DD can get anxious and although she doesn't play up, she does keep getting up and pacing about, getting a drink of water/ re visiting the toilet etc.

I took the emphasis off bedtime but removed screens from her after school routine and replaced it with basically exercising her to exhaustion, outside, fresh air.

If there is something worrying her now, it is more easily separated out from that uneasy pacing feeling.

My DD doesn’t sleep. Never has. We have tried so many things.

This is my future