Is the clock too young for 8 year old? (With possible Developmental issues)

[chickhonhoneybabe]

Background: Separated from DDs DF, she spends time between us both and it’s difficult implementing a proper routine to deal with her behaviour and inability to stay in her own bed at night. She is below expectation at school in everything other than reading, has issues with her understanding and ability to follow instructions both at home and school, doesn’t like change, is easily frustrated and has a SALT referral to rule issues out prior to going down the developmental disorder route.

I’m in the process of trying to keep DD in her own bed all night, and currently losing the will to live big time!

I’ve tried an incentive to keep her there, losing toys, rapid return and not speaking to her when putting her back in bed, but honestly I’m at the end of my tether. She shouts and screams if I ignore her and it sounds as though I’m murdering her (god knows what the neighbours think), she gets out of bed a million times, wants tucking in, wants a hug, wants a kiss, wants to know when she can get into my bed, and starts shouting and screaming if ignored or I tell her it’s sleep time. It’s taking after midnight for her to eventually settle and it’s wearing me down and then she’s a nightmare the next day as she’d tired.

I know it’s partly my fault as I was working on her sleeping in her own bed before Christmas, but this slipped and I let her spend Christmas in my bed as it’s just easier as she gets out in the night and gets in with me (well it’s not as she’s a nightmare in my bed too).

This week she has had toys taken away (can have them back if stays in bed quietly) and has an incentive of a treat at the end of the month if she manages to stay in her bed quietly all night and not get out unless she needs the toilet, but the last two nights have been horrible.

So I’m thinking about the grow clock as she wants me to set an alarm for her to come into my bed and was shouting in the middle of the night to do so, but looking at it I’m thinking it’s perhaps a bit young but it looks ok as a visual tool.

So my question, is grow clock too young for an 8 year old? If so, is there some kind of clock that is visual that also displays the time to indicate night and day time rather than just showing time? As if it just shows the time I’m sure she’ll be asking how long it will be.

I’m questioning everything at the moment as I don’t know if I’m babying her and I’m a really shit mother as she’s just so awful and plays up to me all of the time, or if she genuinely has a developmental disorder which is now more apparent now she’s in year 3?????

Thanks
(Sad face, feels like a shit mum, please send help and tonic water as I’m doing dryuary. Sobs in a corner 😔)

title should say grow clock

No, if she will use it then absolutely go for it. Sleep and routines are so important for everyone’s sanity and wellbeing!

Just perhaps put it away before play dates to avoid any teasing if you are concerned it is a bit age inapropriate. I wouldn’t worry too much though at primary age I’ve had a year 5 admit to being in to paw patrol(aimed at preschoolers) and having paw patrol bedding and their class mates didn’t blink, as well as many other similar examples.

As regards to the concern regarding developmental delay I’d be getting seen by GP and getting the ball rolling. Still attend your SALT Appt but don’t be afraid to get properly into the system as referrals can take for ever and if your DD has got additional needs the sooner these are properly picked up upon and diagnosed the sooner she can access appropriate support to achieve to her best ability.

I've heard people suggest fairy lights on a timer as an alternative - lights on it is day, off it is night. It does the same as the grow clock but not so 'toddlerish'

I think I'd go for a more grown up digital alarm clock. The grow clock is quite babyish for an 8yo.

I used fairy lights for dd. I just gave ds an alarm clock and he couldn't come through until the first number was 7

@Ticcinalong think I’ll try the clock for a couple of days and keep the receipt if it doesn’t work. Re the developmental disorder referral I’ve been trying for over 18 months to get a referral and was told that school needed to do it. She has a school child physiologist assessment beginning of last year and she couldn’t decide if she had some learning issues and suggested the SALT referral first, it’s taken up until now to bloody finally get the referral as her DF didn’t agree with me or the school that she has issues... but now she’s below expectations and getting into trouble for her behaviour he’s agreed to it!

I’m not sure that a normal clock or alarm clock will work as her understanding of things isn’t great, she’ll honestly be asking me every two minutes when it’s time to come into my bed/get up. The logic with the grow clock thing is that it counts down and is visual.

She’s got a night light thing, I suppose I could sprinkle it in sleep dust and say it’s on until it’s time to get up but she wants to know the time.

DD who is 8 had a grow clock from a young age and its still in her room on her bedside table (the sun and moon thing is disabled, its just a digital clock now) none of her friends have ever mentioned it or probably even noticed it. I think, if it works, go with it!

I would also get a GP appt to start the ball rolling for a developmental paed referral in case there is something that needs diagnosis before secondary school. Can't hurt to be in the system (voice of experience!)

Does your DD know what the issue is in the night and why she wants to be in your bed? Might be worth investigating with her in case there is something you can do to help her feel happier to stay in her own room. Mine used to say she was just lonely, which you can't do much about...

@JoinTheDots can the GP do the refferal? I was told it had to be done via school.

Re bedtime I think it’s anxiety, the fact I’m not with her DF and I’m a soft touch, she says she hates sleeping alone but l I’ve tired to explain that she needs to have a good night sleep so that she’s not tired and can concentrate at school, and get into trouble for her behaviour.

I'd go for the grow clock.

We had a rabbit clock, the whole clock was a rabbit face, asleep at night and woke up when you set the alarm. Dd is 11, and would happily still have her rabbit clock if it hadn't broken. She now has an ordinary clock, and always checks it in the morning.

But if she wants to know how long, another way is to get a clock with a light on it, so she can turn the light on and then put stickers ont he hours and on the hour hand. So, red sticker on 7 for 7 am and red sticker on the end of the red hand. When the red hand is on the red sticker, she can come in. She can also see how far away the hand is from the sticker.

Is she waking and sleeping, or is she awake? In other words, is the issue that she needs less sleep? Some kids do need much less sleep. If that is the case, I would have an 'early morning' box, with things in that she likes, maybe including a drink? When she wakes in the morning she can play with that until her cloc says she can go in to mum.

How about tickets?
one ticket for an extra hug, one for an extra kiss, then they are used up, time for sleep. She can use them after bed time.
That way she can visibly see that she has used all her options and must go to sleep. If she is up saying - I'm thirsty, then small sports bottle by the bed, once empty, no more.

Also story board - 4 or 5 pictures to show what bedtime is (teeth, story, cuddles etc), as you do each one, she takes it off/sticks it on the borad, last one is bed, and once it is up she has to stay in bed. Then a similar one for the morning, starting with bed, then clock, etc

Routine, routine routine, and make it easy for her to see and follow

sorry, more ideas, just throwing out suggestions, feel free to ignore all.

If she doesn't like sleeping alone, then how about a larger teddy, wearing your T-shirt, so he is there cuddling her in the bed, so she is not alone, she has teddy to look after her. You could even make up stories about teddy rescuing her (but not from scary nighttime stuff!) so - dd was nervous about the swings in the park, and teddy took her on with him and it was fine!

If she has delay, then look at strategies that work with a child a few years younger. There is a developmental shift which happens around age 7, to do with abstract concepts, and fantasy and reality. If she is delayed, she may not have made that shift yet, which means that telling her something logically (you need sleep for school) is too abstract to process. Instead she needs that emotional need to be met - I need you, so provide her with something to be you, eg the teddy.

you can also cut out a little red felt heart, and put it under pillow, so your heart is with her all night.

YES you can get a referal via GP

God, the utter shit sometimes triped out by professionals! Yes, go to the GP for referral - schools are not medical experts! (I’m a TA for reference, nothing against teachers but my dds teacher told me she was an expert in autism because she had an autistic nephew and she guaranteed my dd was not autistic. Guess what...).

@steppemum thanks for the suggestions. I think I’ll get her to make some tickets before bed. She can sleep for England, it’s her settling down for the night that takes hours. She has no ability to be quiet (she is so loud) and is in and out of bed. She’s got a routine going and things in bed. She had a shower last night, got dried and dressed lovely and got into bed all quiet. I went in and told her how proud I was about 20 minutes after I’d tucked her in, then about 20 minutes after that she’s back to the ‘when can I come into your bed?’ getting out of bed and being disruptive. Mornings are a challenge too as she’s tired and can’t get out of bed and to school on time, so the school are working with her and doing some activities about her needing to go to bed and the reasons why she needs to. I’ve looked for the rabbit clock but looks like that one isn’t made anymore.

@imip think I’ll get her into the GP as I’m losing the will with it all now.

I think you need ablanket rule. Never in your bed before morning. Then you just have to work on how she knows it is morning!

It is surprising what we have to explain sometimes. Not morning if mummy hasn't even been to bed yet!
Not morning if you haven't been to sleep. Not morning if the landing light has never been switched off (well, ours goes off overnight). Then use the clock etc to show her when it IS morning.

for goign off to sleep, how about quiet story tapes, or gentle music, or let her look at books for a bit, or get her to tell her teddy a bedtime story, many children find the light off and go to sleep part the hardest, to finding something that bridges the gap may help.

We have an older model of this clock which DS1 (9) has. Doesn't do the sun/stars or star countdown, but changes colour at a time set by you.
Not sure if this one has a duel time, but ours is set to turn yellow at 5.15, when he can read, and green at 5.45 when he can get up (We are out of the house at 6.45 so crazy times!).
Might something like that have a longer lifetime?
DS2 has an adults sunrise alarm clock, which just get brighter from 5.15. Think that is a more subtle change to spot tho.

Yes to GP, i recommend making a list of things that concern you, it wont all be about sleep, i'm sure, but reluctance to change routine, needing extra processing time, anxiety, seeming developmentally behind... tell them everything and ask directly for the referral. Tell them school support you and SALT is involved. Good luck!

Thanks everyone so much for your advice 😊

I’ve just bought a gro-clock in my local charity shop at a bargain price of £3! 😃 so at least if it doesn’t end up working I’ve not spent a lot of money on it. Then I guess if it does work I can look at something a bit more grown up when she grasps the concept.

Re my concerns and wanting a developmental referral, yes sleep is just the tip of the ice berge. I know something isn’t quite right but I’m not sure what exactly.

Op good luck hope it works.
ADHD, sleep and processing all sort of go together.

@EdtheBear thanks, I’m currently playing ticket lady... I gave her some tickets she can redeem and trying to get her to wait 5 minutes in between using them is proving difficult! 🤦🏼‍♀️

My 8 year old still has his gro clock. He has no problems with it & now he’s wearing glasses the yellow and blue lights are easier for him to see than a normal clock!

I bought one for my son to use age 7/8 - he has ASD and ADHD. It was really helpful.

Reading more about ADHD I think it’s more likey that, so I think I will keep a diary for a few weeks as evidence then go to the GP for a referral.

@Darkbaptism and @MrsAmarettoch glad it helps your DC. I really wish I’d have thought of it before.

DD has just said ‘this is fun’ so the gro clock seems to be working well so far, apart from the bloody 5 minutes clock watching for ticket collection...