Am I not bright? 3rd in my degree.

[OnTrain]

A thread kind of about a thread. More about a post in a thread! Someone slagging off Carol Vordeman because she only got a third in her degree. Saying she wasn’t bright.

I got a third, tbh I’m just glad I passed but I also thought I was bright! Do I need a reality check? Am I a thicko?!

@Ginkythefangedhellpigofdoom my mum dropped out of uni in her first year as she was pregnant. She just got her degree. She’s 55. There was a woman on my degree course who was 81. You are never too old!

@MaidenMotherCrone

I’m so very glad you are able to appreciate it.

There's a whole cluster of abilities around academic success, of which intelligence is one facet but far from the only one.

The things which helped me most were probably being a fast reader, which meant I could synthesize more information, and having a natural tendency to logically structure things, which I also worked on to develop.

I've been doing some undergrad feedback recently and it's the lack of structure which is the hardest thing to deal with. Often it seems to be that they have written down everything they know about a subject but with no internal coherent argument, and while there may be some gems of insight in there, it's very hard to tell. For an undergrad assignment, you get maybe 10-15 minutes for feedback - there's not a lot of time for deep reflection on what the student might be trying to say.

So if you're getting good feedback on the practicals, but mid-range marks on the written assessments I would recommend getting help from your university library on structuring. That could well bring you up to the low 60s.

Well done OP you've enticed them all out of the woodwork with this one. Makes for a fascinating thread. Fwiw, I have encountered very bright people who had no idea how to impart their knowledge. I bet your lessons are much more interesting!

A few years back i trained trainee teachers/ scitt people. i found those who were academically smart had a tendancy to not understand how/why people would find school difficult, because theyd never experienced that themselves. Thanks op for going into teaching, im sure you will be amazing

I'm an academic and it's actually really hard to get a third - most people who do, either fail quite a few modules and resit them getting a pass mark, due to not putting in any work, or they have big problems outside their degree.

"i found those who were academically smart had a tendancy to not understand how/why people would find school difficult, because theyd never experienced that themselves. "

I agree. I find maths much easier to teach than English because I have always been very good at English/analysing texts etc and I just don't get how other people can't do that. I have never been good at maths, yet find it far easier/more fun to teach.

• There's a whole cluster of abilities around academic success, of which intelligence is one facet but far from the only one.

And a different, partially overlapping set of abilities for who makes a good teacher. E.g. excellent mathematicians may be bad at teaching (except at a very high level, to budding mathmos) because they don't think in words and some steps are just 'intuitively obvious'.

Some x-posts there.

I agree, @worstofbothworlds. We have very few thirds. Most of them have had major upheavals and/or did no work at all. I don't know about humanities though.

Oh god, Errol you could be describing my Y12 DS3 who want to be a maths teacher. I’m having to keep my opinion buttoned as it’ll just be counterproductive.

I got a third. This was back in the day when any old degree was worth getting.

I made it easily to University on a scholarship and got reasonable A levels for the time. We weren't exactly pushed back in those days.

I didn't work hard at Uni and always found exams easy (not a boast). I found it much harder at degree level because I'd never had to work.

I've got good general knowledge, love collecting facts but I have zero emotional intelligence.

I'm also quite good at thinking outside the box.

I still love learning and "improving myself". Deep down, i think i still feel a bit crap about getting a third...

Nowadays, I'd probably struggle.

DP hasn't even got O level Maths but still earns 70k plus.

I think it all boils down to how good a writer you are. My whole course was numbers based and then honours year is dissertation and 6 essays. This threw alot of people. Also group presentations can bring the more intelligent students marks down if their group is basically crap.

There were 5 firsts in my graduation class. Me being one. I reckon that was down to a great group (they also got firsts) and being able to write about subjects I was really interested in.

A 3rd in the past was not worth the paper on which it was written. Now everyone and his/her dog is handed a 1st or a 2.1. Cynical moi?

Re. the OU - there is no genuine equivalence with RG universities or any other.

In other words, you can rock up.

A 3rd in the early 80s is about equivalent of a 2:2 today.

In fact a 3rd from Cambridge in the early 80s is probably equivalent to a 2:1 in many universities today.

A 3rd in the early 80s is about equivalent of a 2:2 today.

In fact a 3rd from Cambridge in the early 80s is probably equivalent to a 2:1 in many universities today.

What is my 2:1 from the Uni of Glasgow in 2000 worth now?

**

IAmAlwaysLikeThis: I imagine it is unusual but possible, at all universities. How do you know what marks your fellow students achieved? I certainly don't tell anyone mine irl.

Because our results were all posted on boards in the University quadrangle.

Only one person in the year group got a 3rd. A quick poll of my pals revealed nobody had a scooby who he was. I later met the guy at work and he confirmed he’d not attended any lectures in his final year. Still got a 3rd though, and he massaged his CV to say it was a 2:2.

in my field we wouldn't employ someone with less than a 2:1 unless there were extenuating circumstances, of which being pregnant may be one. That may skew my view slightly, but my general view of someone with a third would be that they probably aren't particularly academically minded, but clearly had a lot of grit and determination to finish their degree despite that. I recognise that they likely worked harder than someone (like me ) that barely lifted a finger at uni but happens to be good at writing essays so came out with an entirely undeserved first.

I work in investment banking — I wouldn’t hire someone with a 3rd no matter how highly recommended they came, as it would reduce the company’s reputation. Having said that, however, we don’t prejudice against second undergrad degrees — so if someone got a 2:1 later it could be considered.

I got a 2.2. I was devestated. However I was a single mother to a small child, living in shit housing, I had a three hour round trip to get to university, and I was suffering ongoing harassment from my shit of an ex. I had no computer at home, no Internet access, and very little money. The house was damp and we kept getting ill. I was capable of more than a 2.2,but I'm not superhuman. Subsequently I have been unable to pursue the career I so dearly wanted, due to the entry requirements which are 2.1 and above. My degree has been wasted, as I've now used up my student loan allocation and am stuck working in low paid, semi skilled jobs. I'm learning to accept it, and my life isn't one of unrelenting misery or anything, in fact things are very good. But I probably won't get much further along the path career wise, which is a shame because I'm pretty sure I would have been good at what I wanted to do. I think education is very important, but sometimes it can back you into a corner.

OP

You can work this out for yourself by asking some simple questions

1. What proportion of people doing my subject at my university did better than getting a third in my year? The answer to this is probably at least 80% wherever you went and whatever you read.

1. Did I do the expected amount of work? Was I lazy? Did I have problems which prevented me from working?

1. Did I come to the degree from a difficult academic background or other system?

If the answers to 2 and 3 are "no"; and the answer to 1 is more than 70% (to take a figure out of the air) then your best qualities probably lie outside academics.

@PoorOldVashti depends on your area, but it would be worth looking into whether grad schemes would take your circumstances into account. May be irrelevant for your field, but I interview graduates for entry level roles in the City and would frankly be more interested in someone with your background that achieved what you did in those circumstances than I would many other candidates

Interesting discussion
I got a 2:1 from Trinity College Dublin in 1994 - that must make me a genius now

I was upset not to get a 1st but I had been very ill in 3rd year so guess I did ok to get the 2:1