Son finds it difficult having posh and not posh sides to the family?

[arrian]

Hello, hope you are all having a good christmas. Just had an interesting conversation with 18 yo ds in the car home from relatives.

He was saying he finds it really difficult having two very different sides to the family
. I think it’s exaggerated, or more obvious by the fact that he saw both my family and dh family today.

I was brought up on a council estate, went off to university, got myself a fairly good professional job. I am much better off now than when I was growing up. My sisters didn’t move from the town.
My parents are both very through and through normal caring working class.

My DS adores his grandparents, but complains they’re a bit boring sometimes. They’re your stereotypical northern, ex-miner brexit voter. Even in my view, quite close minded, but still lovely as family.

DH on the other hand has had a very different upbringing. He went to a top boarding school, and comes from a family that has always had a fair amount of money. His family are very educated, professionals and spread all over the world.

My DS is more like my husband, as he was brought up in a stable home in a nice area and we both had decent jobs. He is currently at Cambridge, following the foot steps of many of his paternal family members and so has a good topic to chat about.

In my eyes, I’d deffo say that DH was a posh git.

My son has told me that he finds it difficult moving from one social setting to the next.

He gets funny looks from my side if he uses a long word, drinks wine, or offers an opinion on something in the news etc. They’ll make half joking comments about him being posh. My dh plays it down completely, and imitates their behavior.
Yet my son said it’s not fair that he should put a false face on.

Don’t get me wrong, he has a great laugh with my family, yet says they’re “boring” and finds conversation to be quite uninteresting; “sandra from the shop is going to Salou, she said it’s lovely”.

It doesn’t help that my parents hate my in laws with a passion, as they think they’re snooty, and will always have more money to spend on gifts, meals out.

Oh this struck a chord and reminded me of family Christmases as a teen. Mum's side all uni educated and while not rich or posh, all very middle class. Dads family all very working class - he was the only one of his siblings/cousins (and both grandparents were one of 10 so a lot of cousins!) Who went to the grammar school and uni, then married a girl who was a teacher- so fancy.

It was ok when we were little, but as soon as DB and I were teens, the differences became obvious, and we were mocked for our "normal", and while we did learn to behave differently around them, it felt fake and made it harder to relax, we did prefer to be with other grandparents and cousins, not because we were snobs, but because we could relax and not have to second guess what we had to say to avoid being mocked.

It does come naturally to some people to read a room and work out how to edit themselves to fit in, but for others it takes a lot of effort, and if your ds only sees your side of the family all together once a year, you aren't really giving him much opportunity to learn the skill. At 18 he's probably only had to do this for the last 3/4 years.

It is hard, and think about what you are telling him, he can just be himself around his dad's family, but in order to avoid being laughed at, he needs to learn to pretend to be someone else around your family, and if he finds that uncomfortable, that's a sign he's a snob and there's something wrong with him - rather than a completely normal reaction to having to constantly think about your own behaviour to avoid low level bullying.

You chose to raise your child like your DHs family, rather than your own. Pretty unfair to expect him to just fit in like you do.

Your son needs to do a couple of weeks work in the holidays.

It's a great leveller.

He's never had a dull student type job has he?

People with real class can fit into any situation, without judging those who might be considered to be of a lower social status than themselves.

Yes, this!

A valuable lesson in life is to stop pigeonholing and stereotyping people, and using it as an excuse to "other" them.

Someone from a different background, with a different perspective on life, from a different place, different political views? They are a human being just like you.

Making a shorthand list of characteristics - northern! southern! rich! poor! Europhile! Brexit supporters!

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

Stereotypes do not make a person, is what I'm saying.

I think it sounds like the OPs family have a chip on their shoulder because you and the ILs are wealthier and better educated than them. Mocking him for speaking well and being successful is cruel but making them feel inferior isn't nice either. Learning to fit in with people from all walks of life is an important skill so perhaps your DH can give your DS some tips. Nothing wrong with Salou. Not my cup of tea but a lot of people like it.

I'll be honest - I was like that at 18. Cambridge gave me massive imposter syndrome and I was overcompensating, so that could be a factor.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, to be honest. It's not unusual for students to get a bit snobby in there first year, and look down at anyone who isn't just like them (or horror of horrors, doesn't fit in with their social set!). They grow out of it and hopefully your son will realise that a more diverse background can make someone more interesting.

I have grown up in a very broad ranging mix of social/cultural and economic backgrounds; in my family, friendship groups and relationships, work and education and areas lived in. I think it teaches you a lot about people, the world and yourself to be exposed to all different sorts. The most insufferable people are those who have lived in their little bubble all their lives and never experienced any diversity to themselves - it breeds ignorance. Tell him he's lucky to have a mix of influences and experiences in his life, it will make him a wiser adult with more people skills and understanding than those who haven't.

Ooops, "their first year"!

My dh feels like this with my family. They aren't doing anything though, but because it's so different from his upbringing he views anything said or done with imaginary subtext. He works a manual job, but it's actually super respected and my bil particularly is very impressed/slightly in awe of what he does.

He however gets all grumpy and calls himself a spanner monkey and thinks everybody is judging him. It's been ten years and my family love him dearly but his chip is too embedded to change sadly. His dad isn't like this at all and gets on well with everybody. I have a suspicion it comes from his mum, who has desperately tried to become "middle class" and tries to be posh with her DPs family.

Made me giggle though, the first time my mil met my dad she got all in a flap about what to call him and what to wear because he was high ranking ex-forces. I assured her he was just a normal bloke (and actually from even more humble/ex beginnings than most).

Most of the time "class" doesn't even come into the equation of our relationship (though he cheerfully tells me he "dragged me down" with a cheeky grin). But I do feel for him that he's so conditioned that he'll never really be able to relax or relate.

Agree that people with genuine class can fit into any situation. I went to uni with a guy who I assumed was a ‘normal’ working class person like myself. He actually was brought up on a proper country estate - actual aristocracy.
By contrast there was a small group of women in my classes who mocked me for my Yorkshire accent. No class at all.

Your son needs to learn that while there are huge differences in some ways, in many others people are the same at any level of society. Being able to have a chat with anyone and not make them feel bad, and not letting them make you feel bad about it is a valuable lesson.

Perhaps a copy of ‘great expectations’ would be a nice gift?

You need to re-educate your son.

My DH is from a very working class family and I am not.

He is now an exceptionally high earner but has never forgotten his roots and our children totally accept and celebrate the different cultures from which they come.

This thread makes me realise why so much isms continue to exist in this country on a grand scale. Oh dear! Forbid it that we should mix with people who are different whether class, race, nationality, etc. It's too difficult. Not much in common and too much effort to be polite and understanding.

I can honestly say that I've never had trouble running shoulders with all sorts of folk. I find it absolutely wonderful listening to their stories, etc. It means I have built up a really good knowledge of lots of things I never would have found out by dealing mainly with people from my own educational or cultural background and socio-economic status. I have been teased and I have teased people who are different to me. We take it in the good humour it is intended.

Some people are far too caught up in this class thing. Besides the UK, there is another country where class is a big thing. I've seen people from that country struggle here in the UK where someone of a lower social class back in that country is their boss or on the same hierarchical level as them.

Just treat people with respect. Forget all this "I'm so education with a Bob or two now that I can no longer countenance dealing with my beastly working class family". Put away your smelling salts and just enjoy the diversity of life.

Oh and the OP's son might find that the well-heeled upper crust hooray Henrys may balk at mingling with him perhaps because he drinks wine instead of sherry and his long words aren't delivered in quite the right plumy accent.

WOT NO OP

I think ordinary snowflake gets it...

I see ye olde myths about 'genuine class' abound - 'they' can apparently fit in socially with anyone.

Total bollocks of course.

I have to fit in with all kinds of social situations you just learn to do it. If you have a relaxed and friendly personality it's not that dificult.
As part of my job I deal with lots of people from all walks of life from lords to dustmen, including sometimes visiting them in their home.
I always treat people with a friendly respect, and avoid being obsequious or over familier, whatever their station in life.
It's not that difficult I guess it is something that comes with increasing maturity.

Hezz Wed 26-Dec-18 09:53:26
What a shame the post a couple of days ago about the OPs posh son returning from oxford, and looking down on her family was a troll.

You'd have loads to talk about.

Such a shame, indeed. They have so much in common.

DavidD well said. If I'd seen your post before I wrote mine, I wouldn't have written it.

Totally get where your son is coming from.

I went from a lower middle class family to an upper middle class profession/DH and it can be disorienting until you’re used to it.

Luckily for me my working class grandparents never once did anything to tease or mock me.

I've been your son - except I refrained from the snobby attitude, given that I grasped at a very young age that everyone is different; it's what makes the world turn, and life would be very boring if everyone was a stilted stereotype...

My paternal side, are upper class, posher than posh, look down on everyone who didn't inherit millions/go into banking. They use long words, they read tomes of weight, they drink the proper wine to go with whatever food they're eating. They're also related, closely, to royalty. My maternal side, on the other hand, are thoroughly working class (my great-grandfather was a Welsh coal miner, for goodness sake!), don't tend to read a book once they leave school, have always looked at me askance for using words like 'askance' and knowing what it means...

I am an amalgamation of both sides of my family. I lapse into a Welsh accent when I'm annoyed, I use very long words when I'm drunk, I prefer light reading (most days), I know more about nature (having been taught by my maternal great-grandfather), and I knowwhich piece of cutlery to start eating a meal with, not to mention the proper etiquette for most occasions. I also chose to live on a council estate, so that my children could grow up with a sense of community, and have a son who sounds like he's from sarf lunnon (despite him having a posh dad... we think it's teenage rebellion, but I'm not willing to stake money on it!).

Everyone is different. I went to the top university in the country for the degree that I wanted to obtain... which at the time was a struggling polytechnic. My daughter was accepted at Oxford - but didn't attend, because she chose to go to our town's university instead. The trick is not to raise a snob... which I suspect, from what you've said, your son is. Worse; he's a middle-class snob with pretensions above his station, I'm afraid. As women fight to be considered equal with men, surely the class system - outdated as it actually is - ought to be scrapped, too?! We're all human, all people who are struggling to find our place in the world...?

But I'll tell you this, OP... as the "lower class parent" of the equation, you ought to realise that your son is looking down on you, too. Not just your family. Yes; you married "up" (hopefully for the right reasons, ie, love), but your own child thinks you're somehow beneath him. Because he is a snob of the worst kind. And he's 18 now, so he's an adult, and there'll be very little you can do about it now... but when he marries someone above his own hybrid "class"? Which undoubtedly he will do. Know that you will forever be privately sneered at.

And know that, in part, it's your own doing. Because you encouraged your son to be the snob he is. I really feel for you. It's going to be tough. I was fortunate in that my parents encouraged me to embrace both sides of my family fully - neither were ashamed of where they came from/what that made them (my father's not a banker, incidentally, because he rebelled... he chose to be happy - and he's the only one who has never divorced!) I truly wish you luck, OP. Because I think you're going to need it as your son continues through his life...

My two families are from polar opposites but I have this the other way round. My posh son adores his working class paternal gran and she adores him. My posh son does not like my posh mother as she has made it plain over the past few years that she does not like him. It’s not down to money. It’s how the grandparents have made their grandson feel.

I think the OP’s problems are deeper than at face value.

The interesting point is why the working class family only talk about boring things. Why can't your son ask each of them to tell him if God exists or why they vote Brexit or how they go on with their parents? Most of us can't stand boring conversation so can't we shake up the boring family and get the non boring interesting side out of them?

My paternal side, are upper class, posher than posh, look down on everyone who didn't inherit millions/go into banking. They use long words, they read tomes of weight, they drink the proper wine to go with whatever food they're eating. They're also related, closely, to royalty. My maternal side, on the other hand, are thoroughly working class (my great-grandfather was a Welsh coal miner, for goodness sake!), don't tend to read a book once they leave school, have always looked at me askance for using words like 'askance' and knowing what it means...

Your mother is Kate Middleton isn't she?

Indeed @Shambu. It is utter nonsense, and trotted out with an air of great wisdom and suggestions of a mysterious social life that involves the Cavendishes and Grosvenors graciously hobnobbing with binmen.