I don't want a 'No deal' Brexit - I can't vote remain in a second referendum

[TheStructure]

I still want to leave the EU for democratic reasons.

I don't want people to go without medication or food.

I appreciate people who voted remain did so with the best of intentions and most have accepted the vote. I can't give the bullying remoaners (I am ashamed of the extremists who voted leave wanting 'No deal') the satisfaction of changing my mind, the idea of their smug faces after calling us "Stupid, racists" for the past two and a half years, I simply can't change my mind, I am not alone either.

Leaving aside your personal feelings about remainers and the toxicity of the whole Brexit row and the social unpleasantness it has caused - what do you objectively, analytically think is the best way forward for the country? For the economy, jobs, international relations? That's your answer.

Why not base the decision, if it comes to that, on objective criteria rather than on your dislike of other people?

If there was to be another referendum, what would you like the question to be OP?

Well I voted leave (not for stupid or racist reasons) but i would happily change my mind if the EU reformed.

How do you think the EU will reform in a way you would want it to without the UK being a part of it?

Perhaps think about Jacob Rees-Mogg’s face if we exit no deal. That might be the antidote.

Basing your decision on the attitudes and emotions of other people despite agreeing that alternative scenarios is, I don’t know how to phrase it and I’m not saying makes up 100% of your character - but it’s incredibly bitter and ignorant.

I wish the referendum if there was one could be about the objective impact on the country we live in (to the best that we can predict) rather than being a personal battle. This has gone way too far.

If I ever changed my mind it wouldn't be as a result of anything any politician or 'expert' ever predicted.
We'll perhaps it would be. But only in the sense that whatever they say, you can be pretty certain the opposite will be the case.

Rrrrriiight

I see the Brexiteer victim mentality as well and truly kicked in.

Well what do you want ? It has to be both legal and do-able!

You'd vote to leave again simply because you don't want some folks to have the satisfaction of you saying you were wrong?

You can't be serious. Grow up. Vote on what you think is best for the country, if it ever came to that.

And it's a secret vote, you don't have to show anyone your paper.

The whole Brexit scenario is a bloody mess.

I think the term "remoaner" was created to try to discount people pointing out that the original vote wasn't done fairly, because the leave campaign lied about things. That has been pretty clearly established now.

For me the biggest issue is the Irish border - the idea of breaking the Good Friday agreement and restarting the conflict in northern Ireland is awful.

So you're willing to acknowledge the damaging impact of a no deal brexit but wouldn't change your vote to save face? A vote that would be anonymous meaning that noone need ever know how you vote?

And you wonder why people call leavers thick.

Let’s hope parliament don’t throw the whole thing back to the great unwashed a second time then.

Might be best if they grow a backbone and either admit it was a terrible mistake and abandon it, or opt for something half way sensible like EFTA/EEA.

What "democratic" reasons?

The only people who aren't elected are commissioners who are sent to the EU by our elected officials. The EU parliament would love to have more power but the only reason they don't is because the commissioners, sent by our elected officials, won't extend the remit of the parliament. If you think the EU isn't democratic enough, then you need to look closer to home. We haven't participated fully in the EU programme and therefore haven't got the EU some people here want. Despite not building relationships and cooperating with our EU partners, we still managed to negotiate the best deal within the EU. (as in our membership benefits and opt outs, not the Brexit deal).

If you don't like that EU legislation is supranational then you need to look closer at how our "democratic" system works. 95% of our legislation is proposed by the government and it's almost impossible for a back bencher or opposition to introduce legislation. FPTP means that the government could have been elected by a minority of the electorate. Let's face it, we haven't had a majority government since 2010.

I don't think you do yourself justice if you vote based on what people's faces might look like. Whatever the outcome now, whether there's another vote or not, whether we leave or remain and whatever that might look like, the only thing that is certain is that every possible outcome will feature lots of people being cunts.

And if you want to be able to leave but not a hard Brexit, then make your voice heard. Are you in favour of TMs deal? Tell your MP you want them to vote for it.

The government should grow up and do the job we elected them to do of governing the country. Not constantly outsourcing the decisions back to the public when things get tough. Take responsibility for your actions government you got us into this mess now get us out of it.

Doesn't this demonstrate the whole issue on a micro scale? We can't back down to 'save face' internationally, when we would be far better off doing so.

What are “democratic reasons”? Do you mean you believe the crap about the EU being undemocratic, or you believe the crap about democracy having come to a full stop in 2016 because the people have spoken?
You may very well not want a hard Brexit, but in that case the only other option available is to stay in the EU. If only someone had pointed this out two years ago. Oh, they did, didn’t they. Nasty moaning bullies that they are.

I particularly admired the construct and choice of descriptor in your post Doobigetta.
You should send it to JC and ask him to use it during next PM questions. I'm sold.

Masterful.

What is your fantasy brexit, @TheStructure, how does it solve the problems of Norn border?

Democratic reasons my arse.

Are people concerned about Ireland bullying, or really, really worried?

What about Scotland?

How do you feel about the UK effectively being part of a customs union, but having no say in how it is run?

The WTO is not democratic, and the rules don’t care about your country's environmental or social legislation, if they are a barrier to trade.

Sooooo OP what amazingly clever Brexit deal do you think the U.K. can get that will solve all the issues AND leave us with £350m a week for the NHS?

‘Democratic reasons’