How long would you give someone for murder?

[Porla]

A) pre meditated
B) heat of the moment
C) manslaughter/accidental

Would you change your sentence if it involved a child or otherwise vulnerable person?

I’ve been thinking a lot about sentencing guidelines recently. The thread the other day about David McGeary seemed to show such a strong support for never realising someone like him who committed such an awful crime. Then today I was reading that Rosdeep Adekoya is out on day release getting ready for full release and it seems like only yesterday she was sentenced.

Shouldn’t the sentencing guidelines of a country loosely follow the general feeling of its citizens? If the vast majority feel like murderers don’t serve enough time, shouldn’t guidelines be changed to reflect that?

You have to decide what the criminal justice system is for. Is it to a) rehabilitate b) punish or c) to protect the public. Personally I think that we must move towards a system of rehabilitation (obviously not the case for truly heinous crimes, when the protection of the public needs to come first).

There is a massive rate of reoffending in the UK and this can only be reduced if prisoners are being effectively educated/trained for the workforce.

Saying that I think there are a number of crimes that seem have shockingly short sentences

I’d have sentenced Rosdeep Adekoya to a 50 year minimum term, that’s for sure

I think for lower level crimes rehabilitation should be key.

But I do believe there comes a point where we should say, rehabilitation doesn’t apply here, you did something so heinous that you don’t get a chance to be rehabilitated and/or recognising that certain people can’t be rehabilitated. There has to be a point where we say, this is your punishment and you don’t get to live amongst us anymore. That bar (a whole life tariff) seems to be set very very high at the moment. Where is the justice for the victims? If you can beat a 3 year old to death over a number of days and be released back into society after 4 years? Where is the justice for him?

Life for a and b, c would depend on the specifics.

Depends on the details of the murder.

For example that boy who murdered his girlfriends mother who had munchausen by proxy and was slowly poisoning her and keeping her kept prisoner in the house, even though that was premeditated I wouldn't give him the same time as I gave say Issei Sagawa. Yet the first one got life in prison and the second one walked free so what do I know?

Shouldn’t the sentencing guidelines of a country loosely follow the general feeling of its citizens?

Yes I agree!

Mind you, we’d end up with Brexit referendum situations wouldn’t we?

“4 options ladies and gentlemen, everybody vote now please on your remote controls....... well the votes are in..... and your sentence Rosdeep is.....

A - life
B - life
C - life depending on circumstances. Like if they were driving and at the last second, someone walked out in front of them, then not life for that because depending on speed and situation it's difficult to avoid something like that. But if they were drink driving, well they chose to get behind the wheel impaired so not really an accident anymore. You chose to be stupid and potentially risk other people's lives, deal with the consequences.

The general feeling of very many British citizens would demand capital punishment, preferably in public.
Fortunately these matters are decided by wise, educated and experienced people (we hope)
Just heard that Britain has more prisoners sentenced to life than anywhere else in Europe.

Rosdeep Adekoya was not convicted of murder so isn’t actually within the parameters of the question.

In England and Wales the only sentence that can be given to an adult convicted of murder is life with a minimum tariff of years to be served set by the judge. There is no guarantee of release once the minimum tariff is released; this is a parole board decision.

There are already detailed sentencing guidelines which bind judges:
cps guidelines

In general I think whilst not perfect our justice system is pretty good on this. I would hate if we had a US style justice system with so many sentenced to life with no possibility of parole or really long sentences. The lack of incentive to reform and work for release must make for extremely dangerous prison environments.

@Matagnolia, they should be decided by wise, educated people absolutely. I fear that’s no longer the case.

John Worboys is a case in point of the parole people not having a clue.

If you polled 1000 people and asked them if Rosdeep has served her punishment I think you’d be hard pushed to find more than a handful of people who agreed she had. Is that because they are more wise and educated than the rest of us?

@mysteryfairy, not a murder charge because she didn’t believe what she was doing would lead to his death if I remember rightly?

But he still died. In horrible circumstances. Technically murder or no, she has not spend long enough in prison by a long stretch

I think for A & B i would want them to get life, C it depends on the circumstances.

My brother was murdered a few years ago, stabbed 54 times (and those are the ones they managed to count) and his body left and not found for a week.
The man who killed him said it was a heat of the moment thing/it was the effects of being hypoglycemic. The police believe it was pre meditated.
He got 20 years.
I don't believe 20 years is enough and he should've got a lot longer.
I don't believe in capital punishment though and wouldn't want my brothers killer killed.
I hope that every day he is breathing that he sees my brothers face and it haunts him til the day he dies.

Speak for yourself MattMagnolia, I utterly abhor the death sentence. End of.

@NameChange1616 I am sorry to hear of your loss, it must have been very distressing.

Op. Personally I am of the opinion that pre-meditated murder should be punishable by death. I don't want to pay for someone to have all mod cons after what they have done.

2 & 3 techinically I feel are the same, and much depends on individual circumstances.

Eg. DV victim finally snaps during an incident and stabs partner resulting in fatal wound or drunken one punch compared to fight that got out of hand (more than one blow) or one snide comment.

I thought that b and c as you list them in the opening post are all manslaughter in English law (pretty sure same for Scotland and other home nations)

The maximum penalty should remain life (for an accident in which the person bore no responsibility should not result in charges)

Don't you think it's hypocritical to support murdering someone because they murdered someone. That is basically what the death penalty is. I don't know anyone in my wider circle of friends who support the death penalty.

But when we say 'life' in UK law it doesn't actually mean life does it. They are eligible for parole after a fixed term. Good behaviour etc and they are out. So it isn't life really.

I think a lot of people feel life should be life. I would be happy for more tax money to go on building prisons and staff them adequately if it meant justice was actually being done for the victims.

I don't support capital punishment.

A - life (as in, the rest of their life)
B & C - dependant on circumstances, however if involving a child (shaking a baby for example which could be described as ‘heat of the moment’) would be life too

I think their should be a minimum set somewhere, and then more adding on depending on the crime
None of this out in 4 years for good behaviour bollocks, I don’t care how ‘good’ they are in prison if they’ve been evil on the outside!

I do think lower level criminals should be rehabilitated, but certain crimes you just can’t be ‘fixed’ from
A thief/drug dealer for example could just be a product of upbringing and circumstances and change with some help and guidance, but a murderer, peadophile or child abuser? No they’re just evil and should be kept far far away from the public

There*

David McGreavy was a B) heat of the moment one. I'd be happy to send him to a firing squad tbh. I'd happily line up a lot of the child killers and off them in one go.

I don’t think you can class David McGreavy as a heat of the moment case - all 3 children were killed in different ways and then what he did to the bodies afterwards - that’s completely pre mediated

A) pre meditated- life with no parole
B) heat of the moment- 20 years
C) manslaughter/accidental- 10 years

I say I don’t support the death penalty but then I read about the John Worboys case and I think he deserves death. I also believe that if you kill 3 people you should have 3 life sentences (a minimum of 75 years).

I also don’t believe that they should have the human rights we have when in prison. Ian Huntley shouldn’t be able to identify as a woman and be treated as one. I also don’t believe that they should have playstations, TVs, comfy beds etc.

I do think every case is different though. A pre meditated murder is very different to a drunken fight outside a pub and a blow kills someone.

I do on the whole feel our country needs a tougher stance on crime especially when weapons are used. I feel that even if you are carrying a knife you should be locked up.

Where are people getting these ideas? 3 life sentences isn't a minimum 75 years, it's a minimum 45 and only if they are consecutive.

The term "rehabilitation" is handed around a lot. Exactly how do you suggest this is done? We have a justice system based on rehabilitation and it does not work. That's been glaringly obvious for years.

And you don't seem to want rehabilitation for those who have committed "heinous" crimes. Yet those are the people most likely to be susceptible to rehabilitation.

And if you are taking away TVs in prison and their mattresses then please quadruple the staff in prisons and start employing more suitable people for the role again