Universal credit.

[OriginallyfromLA]

I don't claim benefits but I'm trying to understand why UC is such a bad thing. Is it because it puts the onus on the claimant to manage their money? Or because it's late making people struggle until they get into a routine of when their payments will come?

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bs39ky/panorama-the-universal-credit-crisis

The IT system is shite and loaded with errors, which leads to people's entitlement being miscalculated and/or stopped suddenly with no notice. 5 week minimum from claiming until you receive any entitlement and yes, you can apply for an advance but then you start the claim in debt already. Many private LL's won't touch it with a 10-foot barge pole, you or they can apply to have the housing benefit element paid directly to the LL but loads of people have had difficulty with getting that set up. The system doesn't keep up with fluctuating work or temp/agency/seasonal work, effectively leaving people who rely on such work at disadvantage. On and on and on.

It is also not saving any money, in fact, it's costing more.

it's costing more

I do t get this, I just don't.

Loads of issues from what I can gather, a friend of mine works on the UC helpline/claimline and hates it because it’s such a mess. People having to wait five weeks before any money is paid means they start immediately in rent arrears if renting.

The once a month payment isn’t an issue if you’ve worked in the past and are used to this but for many low paid workers who might be otherwise vulnerable it’s a disaster. I am talking of those with learning difficulties who have always managed suddenly not being able to.

And thanks to the way it’s paid there are occasional months where people get nothing.

I've heard about people getting paid early because of bank holidays and because UC is paid monthly they look at it that the claimant has earned double that month. So then they don't get a payment that month.

I do t get this, I just don't.

It's costing more to administer than the old system.

So say UC calculate your earnings from the 1st of the month to the 1st of the next month. If you get paid on the 1st and then again on the 30th due to a bank holiday then they take both payments into account when calculating.

They're not bringing in UC in Kensington and Chelsea due to Grenfell disaster. Yet it's ok to roll out out elsewhere. It's an admission that the system is not fit for purpose by making claimants wait weeks for money.

@NotScrewingUpNow It's starting in K&C next week. They did delay it but then some genius at the DWP thought they'd bring it in just before Christmas, just to really stick the boot in.

Yep. Any bank holidays (or Christmas) can leave you without benefits because you receive two wage packets in one month. And if your claim becomes discontinued because of this, then you're faced with another minimum 5 week waiting period. The same can happen if your wages are paid weekly and you reach any month that spans 5 weeks- claim discontinued and wait 5 weeks again.

And all of those specifically affect working people. So although the program is designed to push people into work, it promptly fucks you over once you're working.

It also affects people who claim ESA and are unable because of a disability. So people who are the most vulnerable and may struggle to understand the system (through learning disabilities or mental health issues) are fucked over.

It's a bastard of a system, and the reason we now have massive food bank usage and people living in tents on roundabouts.

You can only claim and maintain that application online.
Not all people claiming are not computer literate or even have a computer/broadband.
Job centres and libraries are closing so there are less places with pcs in which people can go to maintain their claim.
25% of claims are not completed.
Money awarded is often wrong and it takes ages to get claims fixed. In the meantime, people still have to live.
Evictions and foddbank use has skyrocketted since it was introduced.
I could go on. It's flawed, cruel and punitive.

Op imagine each month you work 16 hours per week and you earn the same amount, but your UC flutuates and therefore how do you budget?

Then due to your UC fluctuating your council tax relief also changes every month thus you get a new council tax bill with a different amount for each remaining month to pay

So at the beginning of the month you have no idea at the end of the month how much you’ll get nor how much you’re bills will be

Now budget on that....

I wouldn't judge if someone worked cash in hand and failed to declare due to this system.

I've just read of a woman who missed a phone call from the DWP. She's received a UC sanction of 117 days, at a rate of £10.40 per day being revoked.
One phone call.
Not been in trouble before.
And they take £1200 off her.

Yet Boris can fail to tell government that he was given £52k 9 times.
And he gets to say sorry.

It's criminal. Utterly criminal. I'm already seeing the effects at my DS primary school. The staff are trying to organise drop in sessions to help those affected by it, and our local salvation army has set up a kitchen during holidays so children who usually get one meal a day at school for free can continue to receive a meal.
It's Dickensian and it's criminal. We will be ashamed of this era in years to come and while yes we do need to tackle the benefits system there are things which need putting in place first such as social housing and education opportunities, child care places, and transport.

Sigh where to begin

1 biggest problem I think is the joint claim issue. If you're "living as a couple" it has to be a joint claim - this is leaving many women in abusive relationships trapped financially. In theory they can ask for it to be a separate claim in this scenario - but of course if they do that their abusive partner finds out and that puts them at MORE risk.

2 the 2 child limit. Only 2 children are paid for unless exceptional circumstances for more dc, the so called "rape clause" though it also includes certain other exceptions. Again claimant has to prove the abuse happened.

3 - 5 week wait before you see a penny, you can get an "advance" ie a loan (which you have to pay back and the terms are non negotiable) but you get nothing for 1st week of claim at all

4 - it's all done online. So for any claimants who don't have access to an online device or internet, who aren't computer literate, who have sight issues or reading disabilities (while there's SUPPOSED to be alternatives available its murder accessing apparently), or learning disabilities, or MH issues

5 - the issue its SUPPOSED to address - ie having claimants getting a sliding scale of reduction in benefits as they take on more paid employment - it actually is worse than the old system.

It can't cope with people working different hours in different months to the point it's ending claims sometimes - putting claimants right back to the 5ww & missing a weeks money

It can't even cope with "short" wage months where 2 salary payments are made in one claim period but none in the month before or after

6 - making landlords even MORE reluctant to accept claimants as its so unreliable.

7 - causing homelessness due to claimants being told their rent part is being paid to landlords and not finding out it ISN'T until they're in serious arrears.

8 - claimants who aren't used to monthly payments and perhaps aren't great at managing finances (eg learning disabilities, certain MH conditions) are thinking they're rich and can spend more then getting caught out with bills they hadn't planned for or already thought they've paid. NO support from govt on this.

9 - early public holiday payments screwing up that claim periods payment to the point it's ending claims sometimes - putting claimants right back to the 5ww & missing a weeks money

10 - journals - the only way claimants can communicate with the person assigned to "help" them often go unchecked/unread for MONTHS. I think last month the journal crashes completely for 2 days? There's no phone numbers, no other way of sorting issues/notifying of changes and people have ended up sanctioned for supposedly not notifying of changes and receiving too much money when they DID but the person meant to be monitoring their journal didn't check - or worse notification messages are deleted! Many claimants now screenshot EVERY journal entry as proof of writing them.

It's a fucked up system that isn't fit for purpose and is punishing the worst off inc disabled & children.

So for any claimants who don't have access to an online device or internet, who aren't computer literate, who have sight issues or reading disabilities (while there's SUPPOSED to be alternatives available its murder accessing apparently), or learning disabilities, or MH issues.

Then you get all those who fall for the propaganda about the poor and working poor being the cause of all the economy's ills pointing fingers, 'But they can afford the internet and a phone!' Well, they have to to claim in the first place, and even if you have a library you can get to, not a one of them will allow users to sit at a terminal the number of hours they're required to by UC system.

The cost of administering it was sold as £2.2bn. It's now at about £15m and rising, but I'm sure the fat cats at the IT company who won the contract are off somewhere sunny and warm on the taxpayer pound and nary a soul will quibble about that.

And oh, yes, the disabled, those people whose ability to work is compromised or even non-existent, they are now about £75/week worse off.

All of the above. I cannot believe it is still allowed to continue. The whole system is flawed. God help us all when the migration process starts next summer. If the system can’t cope with the claimants already on it, what makes them think the UC system can cope with the rest of the country? It’s outrageous!

I wanted to return to work. Could only get a minimum wage full time job.
I leave the house at 7am to drop my son at nursery, then get to work. I work really hard. I return at 6pm.

Since being on universal credit and starting work I have had to
Take out an advanced repayment to cover first months nursery fees. any universal credit I get is deducted £70 to repay this
I have lost my council tax reduction, so owe council £80 a month
My assessment period runs from the 28th of the month to the 27th and I am paid on the last Friday of every month. This means I will have two pay packets in one assessment period. So in January I will receive no universal Credit and will have to find £600 nursery fees out of thin air, this also means over a year I miss out on £500 as during the months I am classed as two pay packets. I will not receive any UC during the months where I am classed as two paypackets.
I pay £50 a month travel costs.
When I was on UC I was struggling but if I didn't eat I could get by. Now I am in work I am actually going into debt. I cannot afford my council tax. I am so done in by this and worried. I should have just done 16 hours a week but I honestly and naively thought a full time job would be better for me financially and mentally. I was so wrong and UC have now said if I take a part time job I will be sanctioned and UC stopped.
I can't afford to buy my son Christmas presents. I am exhausted and scared of this mess and I honestly don't know how I can cope.

i can never understand why these problems were not noticed and dealt with and them bought in

i cant believe the gov are getting away with this

does anybody know if the 5 week rule will effect people that are solely on benefits with no wage

*over the year I miss out on £500 as I am not entitled to the £200 working allowance during the periods I have two pay packets.

I have a friend who is completely blind. When it came time for her to apply for PIP after the end of her DLA (no lifetime awards, even though this person is NEVER going to be able to see) they couldn't even issue the form to her in Braille and had no suitable online version, so she had to have assistance to complete it. She then developed a heart condition (her blindness was caused by extreme prematurity in the early 1970s and she has since developed this health condition in adulthood). When they made her review the award just a year later, they rejected it based on the 'new condition' even though the original condition for which she'd already received the highest rates of care and mobility, her blindness, was still present! It then effected the ESA element of her UC. She won at tribunal and they had to backdate the PIP, but the UC system then registered it as a windfall of income (it was, but she was in debt from having no money) so, you guessed it, they stopped her UC and made her re-apply based on that income, which she had to also use to pay rent and food and bills for the 5 weeks with no income.

On what planet is this acceptable?

Here's the other beauty part! She used to work in a call centre. But the Conservative government revoked Access to Work grants, so her employer made her redundant and she's been unable to find work since.

Yep, so much money saved there!

It's just ideological bullshit designed to punish.

Creepycaterpillar

That sucks and I know how hard it is.

I got put onto UC in June, didn't get a payment until July.
When I did get a payment it was short. I had to take out an advance to cover my rent and food. I'm now paying that advance back at £65 a month for 12 months.
In looking for work I found jobs i could do bit I'd need childcare after school.
In speaking to my work coach they told me I'd have to pay child care and provide receipts to my job coach so I could claim the childcare back the following month.

So.. my bills total £800 per month. I get £900 per month but they take the £65 leaving me with £835.. anyone know where I can get child care for 3 hours per night every day for £35 a month? Of course not, somehow can I pay for the child care to then claim back? I can't.

these storys are heartbreaking they really are

maybe we should be more like the French

"Then you get all those who fall for the propaganda about the poor and working poor being the cause of all the economy's ills pointing fingers, 'But they can afford the internet and a phone!' Well, they have to to claim in the first place, and even if you have a library you can get to, not a one of them will allow users to sit at a terminal the number of hours they're required to by UC system." Exactly! Everything's online now! Our local library only has 10 computers, they don't work very well being quite ancient, and you're only allowed on 1 hour at a time. And it'll usually crash/freeze at least twice in that hour.

We're down to one job centre for whole county too.

"And oh, yes, the disabled, those people whose ability to work is compromised or even non-existent, they are now about £75/week worse off." Why I'm dreading the move! (Well yet another reason) I break even now, transitional protection is only in place until there's the slightest excuse that can be called a change in circumstances at which point that disappears! I'm on several FB groups in preparation - have been advised by EVERYONE, cpn, dr, local welfare advice charity who I always use for anything to do with benefits cos it's NEVER straightforward dealing with them OR the forms/paperwork (and I've got 2 degrees inc English!), 2 friends who work in dwp... To stay on the old system as long as possible!

"If the system can’t cope with the claimants already on it, what makes them think the UC system can cope with the rest of the country? It’s outrageous!"

The ONLY plus side to this is those benefit bashers who are in receipt of tax credits themselves and still foolishly THINK this govt doesn't see THEM as "benefit scroungers" will be disabused of that idea and MAYBE they'll finally bloody get it!!

"does anybody know if the 5 week rule will effect people that are solely on benefits with no wage" not 'will' already does! So yes those whose income is ONLY UC don't have ANY income for that time period. Certain (Tory) MPs have said things like

"Save in preparation" from what?!
"Cash in some shares or bonds" yes seriously!
"Get a credit card/overdraft/loan" and pay it off with what? Yea great idea get into debt!
"Borrow from friends and family" most people on benefits don't have well off friends and family!

"i can never understand why these problems were not noticed and dealt with and them bought in" you're working under an illusion - the people pushing this DON'T CARE they WANT to see the poor punished and shamed. It's not saving them money, it's not actually helping people back into work, it's not helping the economy it's purely ideological and punitive.

Apologies I forgot to include the childcare bullshit in my first post, as I'm past that stage but it is shitty and makes it HARDER for women to get back to work.

The whole thing is DEEPLY misogynist and Disablist yet TM claims to be a feminist and Christian!