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Universal credit.

118 replies

OriginallyfromLA · 08/12/2018 17:27

I don't claim benefits but I'm trying to understand why UC is such a bad thing. Is it because it puts the onus on the claimant to manage their money? Or because it's late making people struggle until they get into a routine of when their payments will come?

OP posts:
TaliZorahVasNormandy · 09/12/2018 09:30

Im curious about annual leave from work. Like most people i get 4 weeks a year leave at work. Can i not take it or will they like to pretend that im unemployed for the week and thus have to spend every hour on the computer looking for a job i dont need, because ive already got one.

Becca19962014 · 09/12/2018 09:45

ivy no you're wrong. Some councils have kept the limit for claiming council tax benefit at £73.10 per week (weekly JSA rate) or ESA support group rate. UC is commonly more than this due to it including housing element so people are finding they are given a council tax bill as well in some areas.

Becca19962014 · 09/12/2018 09:48

I think the annual leave from work is youre expected to do whatever is in your claimant agreement.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

ivykaty44 · 09/12/2018 09:54

How would I know whether you’re on hb before you split or not? But if your on hb why should an overcrowded family live in cramped conditions when you can downsize?

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 09/12/2018 09:56

There has been positive outcomes from the bedroom tax. (Said no doubt from an I'm alright Jack in a warm cosy 4 bedroom house).Hmm.
On what solar system is homelessness a positive thing.
There are no properties available for people to down size to. Also if people are in rent arreas and let's face it most people are courtesy of UC.
They can't put in for a transfer.

ivykaty44 · 09/12/2018 09:58

Becca I did say they have to pay 15% of the tax the government decided everyone of working age has to pay at least 15%

KlutzyDraconequus · 09/12/2018 10:13

How would I know whether you’re on hb before you split or not?
So the main breadwinner leaves, I move onto income support and housing benefit
Inthiugjtnitnself explanatory.

But if your on hb why should an overcrowded family live in cramped conditions when you can downsize?
Because downsizing isn't as easy as you evidently think.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not anywhere near experienced in the modern benefit system and you get your info from Google. I'm going ahead and guessing you probably did claim some help back in the 80s when council houses were a thing and dole was a little easier to get. You probably own a home, maybe 2, and have fun being careful with money for no other reason than its fun and different.
Having a good chuckle with your many visitors about how you'll make a cake instead of buying one at a coffee shop. Middle class pretend poor, as I call it.

Now tell me how someone with an overdraft running to -£800 who has very little to no spare cash can simply 'downsize'

It's right up there with telling her unemployed to 'just get a job' Nd is often spouted by people whose only experience is watching channel 5 or reding the daily mail.

KlutzyDraconequus · 09/12/2018 10:17

For what it's worth, my council tax bill is £1330 of that I get a 25% single adult discount and a council tax reduction due to UC. Both of those total £675

I pay £52 per month over 12 months.

Becca19962014 · 09/12/2018 10:22

ivy I think we may be talking about different things, in which case I apologise.

Here people are given a full council tax bill if on UC and their claim is for more than JSA/ESA support group amounts so if it includes housing element for example. It's not on a sliding scale. There's no sliding scale here, either you get 100% paid for you (I'm in Wales and believe it is different here) or you're liable for 100%.

In some councils there's a portion which isn't covered by council tax benefit but in others all of it is and now some councils have decided that the whole amount is due if someone's UC is above those amounts as they're earning more than the basic rate.

Like I said if we're talking about different things I apologise. It's also called something different by different councils as its administered locally not nationally.

Becca19962014 · 09/12/2018 10:23

ivy the 15% contribution minimum is only in England.

BitchQueen90 · 09/12/2018 10:30

Er I'm working poor getting benefit top ups and I have to pay my full council tax bill less 25% as I'm a single parent.

Bombardier25966 · 09/12/2018 10:30

Becca I did say they have to pay 15% of the tax the government decided everyone of working age has to pay at least 15%

This is wrong. The govt gave local government the power to set council tax discounts as they wished, and that created great anomalies. In my area those on ESA Support Group don't pay anything. Those on income based JSA don't pay anything. Those on contributions based JSA are means tested and even with no capital have to pay something. The same for all on Universal Credit, irrespective of the reason for the claim. How is that fair?

We also need to remember the reason why full CTB was scrapped, because local authorities are constantly having to make cuts because the money they get from central government has been cut to the bone.

And where are all these houses that have apparently been freed up by the bedroom tax? Social housing waits are longer than ever, homelessness is at record highs, the same for rent arrears. What good has the bedroom tax done anyone?

Becca19962014 · 09/12/2018 12:02

Thankyou for explaining it better than me bombardier !

cannycat20 · 09/12/2018 12:54

(Warning - long post!)

Things that are bad about Universal Credit (mainly from direct personal experience). I've deliberately used links from sources across the political spectrum.

  1. It was concocted by a group of people who have, in all probability, never gone hungry in their lives, or had to worry about how to afford new clothes or shoes, or the next mortgage or rent payment or bill. It's unlikely that they have ever come into contact with many people in those circumstances, either. In fact, I believe most of those so keen to deliver UC can claim the majority of their expenses - and they do. They belong to the group of people who "forget" to declare hundreds of thousands of pounds of income from property, overseas deals and God knows what else, but somehow remember to claim things like 49p for a pint of milk or Kit-Kat when "on duty" allegedly serving the British public - www.express.co.uk/news/politics/634902/MPs-make-claims-milk-worth-49p-teabag-expenses. Around 20% are so committed to their parliamentary and constituency work that many of them somehow also find time to work as lawyers, businessmen, farmers - www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/03/nearly-one-in-five-mps-have-regular-paid-work-outside-parliament; it's unlikely that they would ever find themselves in the position of losing their livelihood, but if they did, the "revolving door" of quangos, combined with their family, old school tie, university and professional networks would almost certainly pick them up within a few days.
  1. With UC there is, if you are lucky, a MINIMUM five week wait from when you claim to when you receive any benefit. And now that I'm on that particular hamster wheel, I'm reluctant to claim any housing benefit I might be entitled to for fear that I will be sent back to the beginning and the whole thing will start again. (I pay a small amount for board and lodging where I currently live.)
  1. Under the old ESA system, "permitted work" meant you could work 16 hours a week and earn £525 a month (approx) before it affected your allowances. Now, if you receive housing benefit, this has been reduced to £198 or £409 if you have "limited capacity to work". If you earn anything above those amounts, under the "earnings taper", your Universal Credit is reduced by 63p for every £1 you earn. In effect meaning you get to keep 37p for every £1 you earn. I haven't yet been able to establish if you're expected to pay tax and national insurance out of that 37p. But if anyone can explain to me how, exactly, that is "encouraging people to go back to work" I'll be thrilled. Maths never was my particular strong suit, after all.
  1. UC is paid monthly in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (fortnightly in Scotland in some cases). If you are someone who is used to living week to week, this is a HUGE shock. Even if you're someone who has previously been in employment where you're used to having to budget monthly, it is still something of an adjustment. Also, see previous posters' comments about the 5 week months. Although they haven't affected me yet, I'm sure they will at some point.
  1. If you declare work or self-employed status, in the case of most freelance or zero hours contract people (which is lots of us these days - delivery and taxi drivers; healthcare staff; writers; audio transcriptionists; cleaners - the list goes on), then your income is likely to fluctuate month on month. You have to report the amount you have earned every month in time for your payment to be processed. Your Universal Credit will be stopped if you have not been made aware that you need to do this, and miss a statement, or if you earn £0 that month and don't let the DWP know. I am not making this up.
  1. If you declare self-employed status because you are trying to ease yourself back into the world of work by doing a few hours' work from home after being ill, you have to have a self-employment meeting. If you need someone to accompany you [in my case my health professional has very kindly said they will accompany me] and the date you can make for your review is after the date you would normally receive your payment, your benefit is suspended until you have had that meeting. In my case this means I will probably not receive any money until after Christmas so, apart from PIP, I will have had no income for two months. Luckily I don't have any young children who might be looking forward to Christmas and what Santa might bring. The spirit of Scrooge is alive and well and being channelled in the corridors of Whitehall.
  1. My health visitor was a little late for a recent home visit because she had been helping someone sort out their UC. They had spent OVER AN HOUR on the phone just trying to get through to the right department. I'm not entirely sure this is what the NHS means when it puts "any other duties commensurate with grade" at the bottom of its job descriptions, but as my health visitor is a kind and compassionate human being they didn't feel it was right to leave the UC claimant to rot/starve/commit suicide.

I've personally lost track of how many hours of my life the UC system has swallowed up so far. There is only one phone number listed on the UC site when you log in and it often isn't the right one. And whoever decided that Handel's Water Music is the correct "hold" music should be locked in a room for 24 hours and made to listen to it in surround sound. I think it's supposed to soothe you. It has only had the effect of making me hate Handel. (And I like classical music.)

8a. The use of food banks is up significantly in UC areas. The government denies any correlation. news.sky.com/story/line-18-food-bank-use-four-times-higher-in-universal-credit-areas-11343772

8b. In fact, some MPs appear to see food banks as a PR opportunity. www.thenational.scot/news/17270807.four-tory-mps-take-food-bank-photoshoots-to-a-new-level-of-poor-taste/

  1. Rent arrears have increased in UC areas. The government refuse to admit any correlation. (You'd think they'd have a vested interest in this one, really, given how many of them actually make income from property. www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/16/universal-credit-rent-arrears-soar and www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/almost-one-in-five-mps-are-landlords
  1. Suicide rates and deaths are up in UC areas. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/universal-credit-benefits-suicide-stress-mental-health-welfare-conservatives-report-a8636661.html

  2. The UN has criticised UC in particular following its recent visit to the UK, pointing out that single parents in particular are suffering disproportionately. The government has dismissed the entire UN report. Presumably as they didn't visit Central London but instead went to places outside the M25, including several in the north. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/16/welfare-system-cruel-misogynistic-un-expert-warns-damning-report/

  3. Previously, the civil servants having to attempt to deliver this system would have been experts in their own benefits - housing, employment, DLA etc. Now, they are expected to know all of the benefits. The UC system has been criticised in particular for its inflexibility. And I've personally found that the local civil servants, who understand the area and the difficulties, for example, of finding suitable work with particular health conditions, are extremely helpful; however, those working out of the impersonal centralised call centres do not have the same level of local knowledge and are much more likely to just read from the script. That's when they're not reprimanding you for getting a bit upset about the fact you might not be able to eat for a few weeks. I mean, I'm a dab hand at concocting meals out of fruit and vegetables that would normally end up in the compost and almost all meals are made from scratch, batch cooked, and leftovers stuck in the freezer, but even so, a diet of porridge, parsnips and potatoes isn't exactly the most exciting in the world.

  4. If you are claiming free NHS prescriptions or treatment, you will often receive penatly notices even if you are entitled as, despite the fact this system was devised in 2013, there is NO BOX on the back of the NHS prescription form for you to tick for Universal Credit. (What made this even funnier is that I actually didn't claim my prescription charges for a year despite being entitled.) Luckily, you can appeal and from the slightly exasperated although helpful tone of the NHSBA helpline staff when I have phoned up, they're getting A LOT of these calls.

  5. I have friends and neighbours with MS, Parkinson's, the chronic aftermath of a stroke in their 30s, other chronic physical disabilities, and a brain tumour whose lives have been adversely affected by this regime. None of them set off to be ill, but life happened, unfortunately.

  6. You have to do the majority of the UC claim online. If your only online access is your phone, and your network goes down (yes, 02, I'm looking at you), then you're rather lost. We used to have these things called public libraries, but, oh, the government cut funding to them as well. They didn't only lend books. They also provided computer access and warmth and a welcome to all kinds of people. Some of them even had paid staff who were happy to try and help people with this kind of thing. They've been replaced by volunteers now, in many cases, under the "Big Society" smokescreen, or the libraries have closed completely.

And I'm extremely fortunate compared to many - just a simple search on the Internet for "Universal Credit" will bring up so many stories of individual suffering.

I'm sure it all looked utterly fantastic when it was being dreamed up in a secluded, overheated Whitehall bunker/think tank with unlimited coffee and hobnobs, but in the real world, it is extraordinarily cruel.

And like so many half-baked government projects that only consider the financial and not the human costs, it is actually going to end up costing more than the system it replaces. inews.co.uk/news/uk/universal-credit-cost-dwp-more-benefits-system-new-study-resolution-foundation/

I truly don't know how anyone with half an ounce of compassion or humanity or imagination can continue to support a government that is intent on delivering these policies, despite expert and international advice to the contrary. Although this current lot would probably deny the sky was blue.

I asked someone once how the people who devised these things slept at night. Their response was, "On a big fat pile of money, of course".

But hey, austerity is over. Although as Tom Watson referred to it recently, Brexterity is just beginning.

If I were a cynical sort of person, I might think that the current Brexit obsession was a terribly convenient smokescreen for diverting mainstream media attention from UC and its effects. But no, they're just delivering the will of the people. Or 51.89% of them, anyway. That's democracy for you....!

ivykaty44 · 09/12/2018 13:02

Klutz- councils are making it as easy as possible for those downsizing, there is a Hugh social housing shortage. But making it easier for those downsizing makes it easier for councils to rehouse overcrowded.

Klutz you seem to make making a lot of assumptions about my knowledge of hb and lctr so stop assuming

If you put yourself on the council list to downsize you can also claim DHP to assist with extra bedroom rate and any council is going to want to move you ASAP as it makes sense to move you rather than pay out on DHP

Downsizing isn’t going to free up housing but reallocate larger families and smaller families into better suited accommodation.

At least with housing benefit moving was partly assisted by covering two rents but this won’t happen on UC and will leave people in a much bigger conundrum as to whether the moving costs of possibly covering two rents and two lots of council tax is far more expensive than paying for and extra bedroom for a couple of years

pickledparsnip · 09/12/2018 13:08

I'm waiting to be transferred onto Universal Credit. Single working parent, who relies on housing benefit, and TC. I am fucking petrified. Already struggling, it is going to get worse. So scared it will come through before Christmas.

My local council royally fucked up their calculations re council tax this year, so am now paying £135 a month. That's with the single person reduction.

pickledparsnip · 09/12/2018 13:10

I think I'm going to have to share a bedroom with my son, and get a lodger.

ivykaty44 · 09/12/2018 13:14

Rent arrears have increased in UC areas. The government refuse to admit any correlation. (You'd think they'd have a vested interest in this one, really, given how many of them actually make income from property. www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/16/universal-credit-rent-arrears-soar and www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/almost-one-in-five-mps-are-landlords

I wonder how king it will be before the “middle England” landlords start complain about the lack of rent, the cost of serving a NoSP and no tax relief on any of this - tbh I hope UC hurts private landlord. They are happy to hike rents and live of the proceeds of benefit payments

ivykaty44 · 09/12/2018 13:16

Pickled - have you been informed that you’re being changed over? Have you had a change of circumstances?

pickledparsnip · 09/12/2018 13:21

No not yet ivykaty44.
As I understand it, everyone's being changed over soon aren't they? It's been rolled out in Cornwall (where I love) since the Summer.

pickledparsnip · 09/12/2018 13:22

*live.
Although I do love it here too!

Graphista · 09/12/2018 13:27

Ivy - why do you think the fact the problem (of unpaid council tax) has escalated makes it acceptable to imprison the poor? In all likelihood if there's nothing for bailiffs to recover to sell to cover the debt SURELY shows they're on the bones of their arse!

And one barely virtue signalling post at the beginning of this thread does not make you a non supporter of cruel policies. And your latter posts don't convince me either.

Mummylife2018 · 09/12/2018 13:32

@WilburforceRaven That's me. I have MS. I tried to work, couldn't do it. Then when I tried to reclaim ESA was told I had to claim UC. No payment for FIVE MONTHS and have no lost the severe disablement premium as it's been scrapped. £65 per week. All because I tried to work......

KlutzyDraconequus · 09/12/2018 14:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ivykaty44 · 09/12/2018 15:47

I don’t have to convince you Grafista my posting history is easy enough to find on benefits threads and it makes it clear how I see U.C. And the benefits system

But when a system has tried to work with people over 3/4 years before getting to pre communal notices what would you propose the council do? Put everyone else tax up to cover the shortfall? Or cut services?

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