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Would you shop a very good friend to HMRC?

167 replies

Readingonthetrain · 27/11/2018 19:29

I almost certainly never will, but just wondered what other MNers thought.

It’s one of my best friends. She owns 2 properties. One has been rented out for 15 years, the other for 5. She had never filed a tax return and paid tax on her letting income. She has always found tennants through gumtree or by word of mouth, so never likely to be caught if HMRC went through a letting agents files. She’s a higher rate tax payer. I have a vague idea how much she gets in rent, but no idea how much any mortgage payments are. But that isn’t really the point. It’s tax evasion. I told her years ago she should be paying tax on the income, so she definitely knows.....and besides which ignorance doesn’t wash with HMRC.
As I said I don’t think I’ll ever actually do anything about this........but in the same position WWYD?

OP posts:
Mamameena · 29/11/2018 00:12

Yes it’s dishonest. You can let her know you think she’s being dishonest. As a friend I don’t think you should tell on her. If you did and it caused her and her family major distress would you be able to handle it?

Graphista · 29/11/2018 01:59

Actually thinking about it she's probably ALSO not securing deposits as legally required, nor doing safety checks etc required of landlords which puts tenants lives at risk - so yea report her tax dodging tenant shafting arse!

She's hardly on the bones of her arse is she!

I certainly couldn't stay friends with them, and I'd be honest & say why.

And if she is also naive enough to think they only go through letting & estate agents to find people like her she needs to think again. They know people like her try and go through less "official" channels. They have software & other tools to search for certain anomalies.

Op paying in cash does not necessarily mean it was "cash in hand" certain jobs customers pay primarily in cash for other reasons. Cleaners are unlikely to even be hitting tax paying threshold.

"People who aren't bothered about one law, tend to be less bothered about others" yep it's partly why giulianis zero tolerance policies worked to keep crime being reduced in New York. It let criminals know that there was a stringent regime in place AND iirc led to criminals of the worst crimes being caught through their commission of smaller crimes.

Plus op's said this friend is "disorganised" I can't imagine she's the type to be on top of annual gas safety checks etc

Shouldn't be surprised considering who posted this but:

"If she is a higher rate tax payer she probably already paying way more in tax than she takes out of the state." Err no! That's highly unlikely given the actual costs of healthcare, roads maintenance, infrastructure supply and maintenance (electricity, gas, lighting, water treatment), police, fire service, armed forces, local and central government, civil service admin, schools, refuse collection etc etc etc and she's benefitting from these for not 1 but 3 properties!

For me the difference between this and suspected benefit fraud is 2 fold

1 the suspected perpetrator is not in hardship

2 (appalling difference here) they're investigated BEFORE they're punished (with benefits first thing that happens is they basically assume guilt before they have any info and suspend all payments)

What would play on my mind is what else as a landlord is she not doing that she's supposed to.

There's as many as 4000 hospital admissions a year due to co poisoning and many of those are tenants in poorly maintained rented properties.

Personally I'd make it that ALL landlords had to go on a registry with local council hell I'd make it a licenced occupation where they had to undergo training on what they're legally required to do to maintain the safe and habitable condition of the property, then they have to register with council and hmrc and to keep their licence & registration they have to meet their legal obligations.

Maybe then we wouldn't have people freezing and dying in poorly maintained properties.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 29/11/2018 02:13

To PP,

Wow what a long post that was! For all anyone on this thread knows it may well just be a wind up. Some people enjoy bragging about how they are beating the system by Tax dodging, false benefit claims, etc. Could all be pie in the sky.

Let HMRC do their own Job. Would have though HMRC can check with Land Registry if same person with same birth date has more than one property and check with Council Tax records as to who is actually living in such properties.

However, still think HMRC would be better off looking at the large corporations who are accused of avoiding Billions.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Myselfonashelf · 29/11/2018 06:00

No. I keep out of stuff that's not really my business.

Not saying I approve but snitching on my friends isn't really my bag.
I'm sure she won't get away with it forever anyway.

Readingonthetrain · 29/11/2018 06:04

missed it’s not a wind up, and as you’re seeming to imply, it’s not me.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 29/11/2018 06:50

Willingly betraying a friend is worse than (suspected, but unproven) tax evasion.

Well if they've done nothing wrong, then they've nothing to fear, have they ?

RCohle · 29/11/2018 09:12

@DGRossetti But whether or not they've actually done something wrong the act of betrayal on the part of the friend is just the same.

I also don't believe "if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear" is a helpful approach anyway. Hence why people object to national ID cards, routine fingerprinting, SS over involvement etc etc

DGRossetti · 29/11/2018 09:21

But whether or not they've actually done something wrong the act of betrayal on the part of the friend is just the same.

Well, like "crime" it seems "betrayal" is a moveable feast. Personally, I'm quite relaxed with the idea that we are all allowed to use our own consciences rather than take the lazy approach of outsourcing it to "the law". I recently saw a beautifully succinct poster that said The people that hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. The people that killed her were obeying it. Which should make us all think.

By all means, chose not to report someone for a criminal activity. But don't then whinge when others make a similar decision about other crimes that you might regards as "more important".

I also don't believe "if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear" is a helpful approach anyway.

Neither do I. Nor do the de Menezes family. I just threw it in there, because it's the usual go to from people who you should fear ....

Talkinpeece · 29/11/2018 10:55

If you have not broken the law, HMRC will not do anything
if you have they will
simples

if you are happy with broken schools and hospitals,
carry on supporting tax evasion

I am not
I don't

NameChangeToAvoidBeingFound · 29/11/2018 11:01

Because of the type of job offers I have (grad schemes as I'm a uni student), I would have to report any sort of criminal activity and in most cases cut contact. Which is gonna be interesting when it comes to my family relationships Grin

greendale17 · 29/11/2018 11:05

I couldn’t be friends with someone so dishonest.

^This

tinstar · 29/11/2018 12:30

if you are happy with broken schools and hospitals,
carry on supporting tax evasion

^^ This

All this ridiculous talk of 'snitching' on friends. Can't people see the bigger picture?

BishopBrennansArse · 29/11/2018 12:42

I bet all those saying it's disloyal etc would grass on suspected benefit fraud at the drop of a hat.

They think people with money depriving the public purse is ok yet those with very little should be punished hard.

I'd report both to be honest. It's stealing both ways.

Talkinpeece · 29/11/2018 12:50

Benefit frauds are miniscule compared with tax evasion.
Yet claimants are taken to court and jailed for sums less than £5000

when higher rate tax dodgers like the OP's "friend" are ignored by everybody.

What Amazon and apple and Google do is legal
unethical but legal
hiding taxable income is illegal and unethical

I find it sad that the MC pearl clutchers on MN cannot see how damaging their attitudes are

Frequency · 29/11/2018 13:02

This thread makes for interesting reading compared to the benefit fraud ones.

Yes, I would report someone in a comfortable financial position for not paying tax.

DGRossetti · 29/11/2018 13:02

Benefit frauds are miniscule compared with tax evasion.

Time for the obligatory ...

Would you shop a very good friend to HMRC?
MarshaBradyo · 29/11/2018 13:03

It’s not everyone or anyone though is it

The op asks about a very good friend

Talkinpeece · 29/11/2018 13:16

DGRosetti
Thank you. I could not remember where my copy of it was !!!

But in the case of the OP's "very good friend"

  • is she doing gas safe certificates for her tenants ?
just that their register can be inspected by HMRC Wink and if she is not, she is putting their lives at risk

I bet she has not put their rental deposits in a protected scheme either

DGRossetti · 29/11/2018 13:21

is she doing gas safe certificates for her tenants ?

Of course they are - there are lives at stake. Why on earth would someone dodging tax add to their woes by breaking another law ?

DGRossetti · 29/11/2018 13:22

I bet she has not put their rental deposits in a protected scheme either

Isn't that a legal requirement ?

Caprisunorange · 29/11/2018 14:52

There is literally no reason to think OPs friend hasn’t protected the deposit or got a gas safety certificate. They are in no way connected to declaring income for tax purposes

Talkinpeece · 29/11/2018 14:56

If they have registered as a landlord with the protection scheme then HMRC will get around to her sooner rather than later .....

Caprisunorange · 29/11/2018 14:59

Those 2 things aren’t connected at all

DGRossetti · 29/11/2018 15:00

There is literally no reason to think OPs friend hasn’t protected the deposit or got a gas safety certificate. They are in no way connected to declaring income for tax purposes

There is a very good reason. The OPs friend is criminal.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/11/2018 15:01

I haven't RTFT but I'm struggling with the idea you consider this person a friend when they are crossing a very clear boundary for you.
I'm also wondering why non-resident self employed fathers who don't pay any maintenance aren't on your radar for tax evasion, but that's a separate story. I'm sure it's more widespread though, and legal sadly.