Would you shop a very good friend to HMRC?

[Readingonthetrain]

I almost certainly never will, but just wondered what other MNers thought.

It’s one of my best friends. She owns 2 properties. One has been rented out for 15 years, the other for 5. She had never filed a tax return and paid tax on her letting income. She has always found tennants through gumtree or by word of mouth, so never likely to be caught if HMRC went through a letting agents files. She’s a higher rate tax payer. I have a vague idea how much she gets in rent, but no idea how much any mortgage payments are. But that isn’t really the point. It’s tax evasion. I told her years ago she should be paying tax on the income, so she definitely knows.....and besides which ignorance doesn’t wash with HMRC.
As I said I don’t think I’ll ever actually do anything about this........but in the same position WWYD?

I would report her. She is committing a crime by not reporting the income she is earning on her two rentals.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think anyone not declaring their income, or falsely claiming benefits is in the wrong.

If she has started declaring HMRC will know and there will be nothing to investigate.

That was just an example, sorry Badlad. A better way to put it would have been as long it's not a person a risk.

Why is it wrong to pay a cleaner/tradesman in cash? They are self employed - it's their responsibility to declare payment and pay tax, not the person paying them.

I would warn my friend of what can happen, but no I wouldn't snitch. She's supposed to be your friend.

I wouldn’t. It just wouldn’t bother me.

Once big companies start getting taxed properly and the working classes are paid enough to survive on, then maybe il start caring. When severely disabled people aren’t having their benefits cut because somehow they are ‘fit to work’ then maybe il focus on benefit fraud. But that’s never going to happen, is it? Let’s keep blaming the tiny minority for the shit that this country is in 🙄

Let’s keep blaming the tiny minority for the shit that this country is in

Excellent.

I personally wouldn't, so long as she's still providing the cakes when you meet up

Imagine having a "good" friend who's loyalties were to the taxman over you.

I can't imagine classing a tax avoider as a good friend.

I just couldn't do this. I don't think tax evasion is an acceptable thing to do but with friendship comes trust.

Is she's got mortgages on them she might not actually owe anything if her mortgage interest and expenses outweigh the rental income and she makes a loss (like mine does, I'm not bitter!) But obviously she should still be doing a return in any case.

keep your nose out of her business/ you're a busybody. She's told me on more than one occasion she doesn't file tax returns. Its not like I hacked into her computer or went through her filing cabinet when she was having a poo. If a friend told you that the wine you were drinking was from a case that they'd stolen from Majestic (and that they regularly steal wine from Majestic), you'd do nothing about that either?

Those who wouldn't want me as a friend (although I have repeatedly said that I haven't reported her and almost certainly never will) imply that you have something to hide. You wouldn't want an honest friend? Because honesty is a quality that i normally do look for in a friend. Aside from this issue she really is a good friend. And i'm with you formerbabe, which is why I haven't. I wouldn't want to see her prosecuted, potentially go to prison etc, But perhaps if HMRC was more thorough less people would do this, because the only thing stopping many of us (avoiding tax, not shopping friends) is our own moral compass.

@Readingonthetrain

Actually if I knew a friend was shoplifting, I'd still do absolutely nothing.

No I'd rather HMRC spend their efforts investigating Google, Vodafone, Amazon for evading tax.

I never fail to be surprised at how many shit "friends" there are on MN.

I would report if I knew there was tax not being paid, but I (like many others) also want the big corporations to have to pay up too.

Also, if she is going to be found out eventually it is in her best interests to get found out earlier rather than later so she owes HMRC less?

E.g. if she has avoided paying £1,000 tax a year after one year she will owe £1,000. After 10 years she will owe £10,000, after 20 £20,000, after 30 £30,000. So wouldn't it be 'better' to be caught earlier when there is less to pay and a smaller fine then be caught after maybe 30 years, have much more to pay back and risk a massive fine or even jail time?

The only way not paying tax due is of benefit to the non payer is if they don't get caught.

Self employed people being paid in cash has no bearing on whether or not they’re declaring all their income.
At this time of year, most of my sales are in person at events and 95% of them pay cash. I keep records and declare all of my income even though it may come in as cash. I also pay cash for some expenses eg postage. Does that make the post office dodgy as well?

Anyway, my dad used to work for Hmrc before he retired. He used to deal with the campaigns where they targeted certain groups of people likely to be under/not declaring. I think the last lot he did was eBay and amazon 3rd party sellers.

needle, I'm not implying that anyone paid or paying in cash is avoiding tax, but its not unusual for tradespeople to offer price A and then, if asked, a lower cash price. The difference in the 2 prices being unpaid tax.

I wouldn't, no. Yes it's tax evasion if she really isn't paying tax but you could ruin her life and also her family's by reporting her. I think we should all stop sticking our noses in other people's business.

No I wouldn't, I wouldn't even do it to someone I wasn't "friends" with and I've had several opportunities to do so.

Once big companies start getting taxed properly and the working classes are paid enough to survive on, then maybe il start caring.

This kind of linear thinking always pops up on mn. It's as though both can't be targeted at the same time and one is far more difficult to accomplish due to being a globalised world and would require international support across the board.

It's also surprisingly a common mindset amongst those who profess to be life long left leaning liberal's, its the do as I say not as I do mindset that's apparent, it's like the Guardian doing their run on Tax avoidance and unpaid internships whilst doing both themselves.

The mental contortions some go through to justify their "liberal" status must be tiring.

You need to report as if she is not paying tax then how can you be sure she is following LL regulations, deposit scheme, regular boiler checks etc. As for the do gooder angle of providing much needed homes, I am sure the LL will be more than happy to have a massive building scheme to provide more housing in the local area which will affect their house price, after all they are only doing it for the good of the outpriced.

Tax evasion cost the UK 30 billion ..... Guess that is mostly due to large companies not paying.

No it really isn't. According to the same HMRC report, the vast majority of that £30bn is private individuals, small businesses, black economy etc. By contrast "evasion" by large companies and the super rich is quite a small proportion. It's just the numbers game. A few million people "evading" a few thousand pounds of tax gives a much bigger number than a tiny number of large firms and super rich evading even huge numbers each.

I just can't imagine having enough respect for anyone that committed tax fraud to even want to be their friend is my issue, it doesnt show anything positive about them as a person .
On that basis, If I had sufficient information or had heard them directly admit it, certainly I would report it, I'd also tell them I thought it was very morally poor on their behalf and fade them out asap, they'd not want to see me anyway if they knew I'd done it so it would work out best all around you can assume!

Quite aside from the tax situation, she's likely to be a shit landlord with no interest in her tenants wellbeing or safety. After all, if she's prepared to dodge tax, why not appliance testing and electrical safety checks ?

Nosugar, the OP said she wouldn't report the friend! I am shocked at how many people would report though. Sorry, but that's not what you do to friends!

No, really can't get worked up about something like this.