Not sure if I’ve gone too far with punishing DD

[ToysToysAreGone]

DD aged 3. Has been refusing to put her toys away all weekend. I’ve tried bribing her with homemade chocolate brownies she said no, I’ve tried timing her and having a competition with her – she sat on the sofa and watched me put them away, I took her TV and tablet time away until she put them away, she sat on the sofa all afternoon saying she didn’t care. I even said I’d tell Father Christmas and he wouldn’t bring anymore toys until she put them away, she said she doesn’t care.

This afternoon we’ve got back from my mums, where she happily put her toys away so I know she can do it, and she’s got the rest of her toys out so literally every toy she owned was on my living room floor – we live in a small flat so I couldn’t move for toys.

So I’ve got a black binbag and filled it with all her toys, and won’t switch the TV on now. She’s sat in the middle of the living room shouting “I love being naughty” and laughing. I will allow her to have her favourite cuddly toy back at bedtime but otherwise she’s not having them back.

She thinks they’re in the bin as I took her down to the green wheeled bins and put the black bags in – they were collected yesterday, and I had my mum come and collect the bags and take them back to hers (favourite toy was taken from the bag and is hidden in my wardrobe which she can’t open).

Give me strength? It’s not 4.06pm, she goes to bed at 7pm although I think an early night might be in order.

Have I gone too far? And if so how do I make it right? It’s not even as if she cares that her toys are gone. She’s literally sat on the floor laughing.

I’ve tried limiting toys and she just ignores it, if I enforce it she just gets all her toys out.
Then surely the answer to that is to not have every toy she has available to her . Clear some away, current toys not in use soon become new toys with renewed interest after they’ve been put away for a while.
Your DD is in the driving seat here and you need to take back control and show her that you will follow through on what you say.
As for the laughing, ignore her and carry on with what you were doing. She’s looking for attention, a response, and the way she sees it she will get it by doing what she’s doing. It seems to be working for her.
Start getting rid of some toys. Box and store away in the attic if you need to. If she is closer to 4 years old than 3 then you can explain that she has too many toys (because she can’t put them away when asked). I also think the advice of using star/reward charts for tidying up in addition to limiting one or two toys to use at a time works wonders. Reception classes do this.
Christmas is coming and if your DD has too many toys now for her to not put away then it is going to get worse for you after Dec 24th.

You are bigger than her OP. You can limit access to how many toys she can get out. But sounds like you have a very strong willed child. Does time out work with her?

Time out does work when she stays on the time out spot.

She hasn't asked for the toys. I haven't completely ignored her, she asked for some water and I've given her that but she's just not bothered by the toys at all, she's not even gone over to where her toy storage is to see if they're there.

She's currently singing jingle bells and playing with the cat...

Not sure what to do next.

Just leave her for now maybe?
But if time out works, then might be worth doing that in future instead?

In future, only threaten something you intend to follow through on. So don't threaten to throw toys out unless you actually will. Consistency is key. If you only mean what you say sometimes, how is she supposed to know when you're being serious?

Update:

I gave back the toys, but she still refuses to put them away. Time out doesn't work she just sits there shouting "Not put toys away" and refuses to do it. I took TV time off her which didn't work she just said "No TV ok".

Had a big prechristmas clear out and got rid of loads but it didn't help, she still won't put any toys away.

I've banned her from playing with her toys until she puts them away but she literally doesn't care, she'll sit in the middle of the floor and stare at the carpet for an hour.

At a loss as to how to make her put them away.

You both sound stubborn, is she a mini you? My daughter was a mini me and we did clash with our battle of wills.

Can you remember being little, what might have motivated you the most back then. Maybe your mother can give you some tips on what you were like?

Obviously the approach you're using isn't working. Why keep trying it?

Personally I didn't do the tidy up time when they were that young, I did it later on when sanctions were better understood. She's obviously enjoying the attention as it's fully on her. I would just stop asking her for now, stop dead to reset the clock. Yes it means tidying up her stuff if you allow her full access but she won't get the attention. Maybe give yourself a reward at the end of it. Maybe make it look like you're having a great time putting stuff away. Trains get choodchood away, roll toys get rolled to sound effects, babies get put to bed with a night night type of thing. Make it look fun and she might want to join in and help you both do it together. It doesn't have to be a battle of wills where she has to do it alone.

My son is six now and still the same.
At this age we have progressed to no iPad and he just does something else.
Some children don't respond to having things taken away.

I would pick my battles, she is only 3 I have a feeling you won't win this one

What about ‘let’s tidy up together?’ for now? She’s only 3.

That kid will go far.
The battle over the tidying is fun for her. She has your attention and it's a game. Ditto time out.
I think you need to change your whole approach, de escalate, distract and perhaps try a more playful approach?
One thing I found helped to get my DD to co operate was to give her notice that we were going to do something different, or (boring) useful like tidying, but also have the next, more interesting thing lined up.
Like, let's put the drawing things away so we can have clear space for lunch/play doh, etc. Or, after we do the shopping we'll go to the park.

She may be only 3 but you have to catch them young. If you let her get away with it, she's won and she hasn't learnt the lesson. The only lesson she'd learnt is that she's the boss. She can't sing and play with the cat forever. It's obviously a waiting game.

Ok OP what do you want to achieve from this? At the moment you are locked in a battle of wills with a 3 year old - with the approach you have at the moment there is no way out. She is literally just sitting on the floor. This is an epic battle that you now have to figure the way of.

Tidying away is suppose to be a teachable moment - I agree with gamerchick

Stop making empty threats like telling Father Christmas so she won’t get any more toys and saying you will throw them away unless you are actually going to do that(which would be wrong for a 3 year old). It’s just pointless.

Make tidying positive instead of a chore. “Let’s tidy up dd and then we can cuddle up with a book/ watch a programme/whatever she likes doing” If she doesn’t help, then she doesn’t get that special time with you which is something you can easily follow through on.

A good place to start is never to make any threats that you're not prepared to carry out. Because children will learn that you don't actually mean what you say. You dd1 has her toys back now, right?

I would ignore her for a bit. Don't show that you are bothered by her sitting playing with the cat, or whatever. Wait until she wants to do something with you. Then you can say something like: "Well, that would be nice. But first we need to out the toys away. Shall we do it together?" And praise her when she's done it.

In short, no empty threats. Ignore bad behaviour, praise good behaviour. And don't bear grudges.

I would concentrate on praising her whenever she puts something where it belongs, keeps a room/space tidy, is helpful to you, etc
If you make being tidy fun she will want to do it.
You are making the refusal too much of a big deal and she is finding it amusing.

Maybe try a sticker chart for when she tidy's so she can see a positive for what she is doing rather than a negative consequence for what she's not doing.

You could start by giving a sticker for one toy and build it up then maybe at the end of the week she gets a treat?

It may seem a bit too much like bribery but that might be what she needs.

I don't think you have gone to far at all. I have done the exact same thing in the past and every time my DD did something good one of her toys would magically appear. And I'd keep reminding her not to leave it laying around and to keep her toys tidy. I also used to keep most toys in a cupboard that was locked and just had one toy box full out for her to play with. And every week I would switch toys out of the toy box with different ones from the cupboard. This stopped her getting bored of the same toys and she would actually play with them instead of just throwing them all over the floor

If I say "We can't watch the film until your toys are away" she'll just shrug and say "Ok" and then go back to sitting on the floor.

My mum says I was the same, she remembers me being about 6 and she'd taken all my toys and books out of my room and I just sat on the empty floor doing nothing and I kept it up, I literally didn't care about having my stuff taken away.

As I said DD may not be NT so she may not even care about her toys, I don't know.

Also if I say we'll do it together, she'll say yes then stand there while I put them all away.

Like others have said, you are making way too much over this.

Your long term aim is to raise a capable adult who can pick up and look after themselves. And in the shorter term, a child who knows that everyone in the family mucks in. She's only 3, she will learn a lot by watching you. Try not to be petty or stubborn.

In this situation, personally I would have tidied up the toys breezily myself in front of her and encourage her to help. Even a small thing - 'can you pass me that yellow brick'.

You're making a lot of work for yourself bagging up toys!

If you are bothered by her sitting on the floor, not doing anything, don't show it. From what you say, it sounds as if she getting the message that you are more bothered about it than she is. Maybe that in itself has become a bit of a game for her?

If you are trying to do things together, maybe make it into a game of sorts: Your turn, my turn. Can you find something blue? Can you find an animal? Or maybe just put a certain number of things away to start with - say five each. Makes it easier to reach her target and get her "reward" And you can count them together. It might take a few sessions, but you should get there in the end.

If she stops, you stop too. Don't act too "bothered", maybe a bit disappointed. But no reward if she hasn't done what was expected of her.

Also if I say we'll do it together, she'll say yes then stand there while I put them all away

Ok but that isn't so terrible. Children learn so much by watching and she'll get the message that toys are cleared away after playing.

'Do what I do not what I say'

Have to say I disagree with twosoups1972. In my opinion, this approach is just showing your child that she doesn't actually have to do as you say because she can ignore your requests without consequence.

But I agree with her that you seem to be making too much of this.

But if she's not missing them, then she doesn't really need them? Has she actually ASKED for the toys?

Give her maybe 3 toys. And she gets an extra toy back if she tidies those toys away. If she doesn't, then she doesn't. At some point she will get bored of the 3 toys and want extra toys.

But if you keep caving, what is the point of it all??

You're still applying very adult logic. The consequences you offer are ones with no value to her. She is still very little. What would she do if you said fine, lets both sit on the floor with no toys and made a game of that? I think battles of will where it's over something unimportant are of dubious value. Agree with the sentiment to pick your battles, praise good behaviour and follow through on (reasonable) consequences. Don't make pointless or hollow threats.