Advice sought by an employer from parents of individuals with Aspergers

[Bilbobaggins18]

Hi

I work in HR in a Tech company.

We employ many highly talented people technical roles (such as coding) some of which are diagnosed with Aspergers.

We want to do the best for all of employees. I wanted to hear from parents of children who are diagnosed with Aspergers or Autism - how can we make their working environment more comfortable for them?

For instance, I worry that they can get isolated in their technical roles, perhaps with a remote manager based in the US. We would like them to connect more with social groups locally so they have a "tribe' to
share common interests in the latest innovations within the company for instance.

I would really appreciate some feedback from parents who have sons or daughters working in tech and please share with me what they find frustrating in their workplace and what we can do better.

We hugely value these talented individuals and want to ensure they have a comfortable working environment.

Thank you !

TravellingFleet

I completely get where you are coming from. I understand your point and respect it.

However, the main problem, the reason why some of our experiences are so suboptimal is exactly the lack of interest, understanding and public discourse about ASD in employment.

There are so many myths and misconceptions, so much indifference and cynical discrimination.

Every interest expressed, a public discussion is an is an excellent thing, a welcome step forward.

It should be encouraged, not shut down via threats of damage to corporate reputations. The OP will delete the thread, and the contributions will be erased. It will be a step backwards, not forward.

Please say that you will not be penalising OP or her company for opening a conversation.

One of the things that frustrated me in teaching is that so many 'techniques' to support pupils with ASD actually support all pupils. So why not make it a default approach?

There are plenty of people who would benefit from an working environment that considers the physical comfort of employees, is open to specific needs being expressed, gives clear unambiguous instruction and a management style that avoids sarcasm. The opportunity to socialise in a more structured way, that doesn't rely on small talk in noisy busy places would suit lots of people.

Agree pickle!

Fair enough Pumpkin, and I take your arguments - we’ve had some good discussion on this thread, with voices of those with autism being heard rather than their parents.

I’ve probably just convinced the OP that women with autism are evil ungrateful buggers who get upset when you try to help them are best not hired in the first place. :-)

It has made me reflect on the implications of me, as a woman in a senior position, not being ‘out’ as autistic at work. It would be a great thing for junior staff to know (probably) but I don’t dare. My colleagues are lovely people, but their assessment of my competence would be severely damaged if they knew...

(P.s. is anyone else thinking with a mix of horror and laughter of the forced autistic social hour?)

I don't disagree that the OP was at best clumsy and at worst infantilising and patronising, but sometimes it's worth responding for the lurkers and the posters who might not have thought of stuff before. I had no idea what was possible in terms of support at work and university until I heard from other autistic adults what helped them. It can be impossible to generate solutions when you have no idea what's possible. There's a lot of good advice on this thread that stands to benefit employers, colleagues, parents and autistic people ourselves.

There's been some fabulous advice on this thread and whilst bluntly expressed, I agree with Fleet. The number one thing that will improve the workplace for those with autism, are managers making a conscious effort to step back and assess what the person's intention was when they said something that is perceived as rude. IME it's very seldom intended and just hasn't been padded out with the expected fluff. Our perception of intent in being rude does not make it so. Fleet's posts demonstrate that. If you actually take her posts and look at them she has just been very to the point but has been accused of being mean by more than one poster.

Well Fleet, if you think of it as say 'women in leadership' networking event. I don't mean women, but Aspies. It enables to know who are the secret Aspies, and to support them, seek support from them when appropriate.

After all, there are powerful networks of alumni and club members of this and that.

I have aspergers. Why call me cynical?

You're assuming things.

Oh, please let's not attack autistic posters for being 'native' and unedited. This is an anonymous forum. In real life it takes Aspies so much energy to camouflage and communicate very 'leaderfully'. I am sure Fleet is a force in real life.

TravellingFleet I feel that you are being unnecessarily hard on OP. This is her first post. It is in _chat; it is not in the 'right' place (employment matter). This forum's tagline is 'by parents for parents'. I suspect that OP does not understand her audience and has therefore gone about this the wrong way (OP this forum is not full of people whose primary focus is being parents-of-children. We are grown-ups, of all varieties, with wide-ranging agenda - just look at all the topic headers).
OP is trying to do the right thing, although maybe in a clumsy way. It is not the correct response to try to name and shame. You may not want to show gratitude but don't you think that it would be more useful to positively engage? This person is trying to achieve the thing that you want and you are knocking her back. It's illogical.

Shall I repost my point using accepted language?

Here goes...

I don’t know - it’s really sweet of the OP to want to make things better for disabled people, and I bet she’s a lovely boss to work for :-). But I’m a bit uncomfortable about this, I don’t know why. HR ran a really great workshop about working with disabled people and how you should never talk to someone in a wheelchair’s carer instead of the person themselves. Do you think that asking parents of autistic people for help might be a bit like that? Do you think we could ask some of the disabled people directly instead? I don’t know, maybe parents do know better about adults with disabilities. Sorry if this seems a bit controversial!!!

You are being a dock TF. There is plenty of middle ground between faux-fluffiness and I'm-going-to-track-you-down-and-destroy you.

dick thanks autocorrect.

It seems that you are looking at this through your lens and trying to ‘fix’ it. It doesn’t necessarily need fixing.

A lot of them may enjoy being isolated (what you would define as isolated anyway). I know my child who is a young adult would love working in what you would define as ‘isolation’. However if they had ‘similar’ people around them at work they won’t be as in my experience they tend to naturally drift together and are comfortable with each other. If my child does not recognise a ‘snap’ they would prefer to be isolated (as you define it) rather than forced together with people they don’t feel comfortable with.

Can’t speak for all as everyone is an individual but things like feeling obliged to shake hands horrify my child. At least now they have reached the point where they will subtly hyperventilate until they can get to a bathroom to wash the person off, as opposed to immediately desperately rubbing their hands on their clothes which is what they initially had to do before getting to the bathroom.

Again, in my child’s case - meetings, no group meetings. Just no. One on one technical discussion. Fuzzy team meeting, fucking recipe for disaster. Other individuals may be completely different though?

I would agree with those saying ask people with Aspergers, not their parents - but I don't think you were trying to be infantilising so here's my tuppence.

I'm a FT working aspie who works in a finance/tech environment btw so not a million miles away. I'm diagnosed, but I would say there are many in my office who are undiagnosed but diagnosable (if that makes sense) who like me, slipped under the diagnosis radar at school/uni. I Was only diagnosed in adulthood.

Anyway, my things you should think about:

1. Management
   -you need good, caring, compassionate managers who listen to people, don't jump to conclusions and are patient
   -They also need to be consistent. Moving goalposts without explaining why they are moving is likely to cause huge problems.
   -need to keep promises - even small ones. If a meeting is planned, either attend or at the absolute minimum get in touch and explain that it needs delayed/cancelled. No showing destroys trust and can leave an aspie like me really fretful, wondering if the meeting is happening at all, or if I've done something wrong, or, or, or...cue hours lost to me being in a loop inside my head.
   -Same kind of thing, make sure managers answer their damn emails. It sounds trivial but if I've plucked up the balls to email my manager about something that's bothering me then not getting an answer (sometimes at all) leads to me endlessly analysing and reanalysing what I've said, trying to work out whether they're annoyed, etc. I can't interpret silence, I don't know if I'm in trouble or not, and again I'll just end up being unproductive because I'm stressing about it. Take the two minutes to at least acknowledge if at all possible

2. Clarity around expectations/job
   Try to make sure you have clearly defined grade guidelines/performance guidelines which people can work to and ensure these are implemented consistently.
   Make sure that the expectations for what should be completed by each member of the team/project are clear - for two reasons. 1 - to avoid the autistic person being worried about not knowing what's expected and 2 - to avoid friction with other team members when an autistic person might miss the unspoken and end up overstepping.
   Write this stuff down too.

3 - Environment
Ask people what they need in their work environment if possible - maybe do a feedback survey so everyone can have their say. For me, things to think about are
-Noise; do folk spend lots of time at each other's desks or on the phones? This can be really intrusive. Can people wear headphones so long as the music can't be heard by others (can be very helpful for concentration)
-Heat; I find it hard to focus if I'm too hot/cold so things like positioning of air vents and heaters
-seat positions. I HATE people walking behind me all the time, I can't ignore it and it really distracts me.
-smells. Just in general
-have plenty of meeting rooms so people can talk away from everyone else.

1. Social stuff

I think in general social stuff with a purpose - even if it's a pub quiz/games night - can be helpful. I know I find the generic Friday night after work in the pub really hard, I'm never sure if I'm invited or welcome or how I should act. On the same note, make sure people are always invited (even if it's sending out a team email) - I've found myself the only member of my team sat in the office whilst everyone went for a curry because I didn't know if I was welcome or not and nobody spoke to me directly. I was really upset

Other things
-Try to create situations where people can give feedback/thoughts in writing after having time to think. So rather than calling a meeting where we will discuss a new approach, debate it and make a decision, instead have a meeting to give initial info and then invite people to come back to you by x date. Obviously this is sometimes overkill, but often we'll need time to process and can struggle to articulate in big meetings
-Watch out for the office bullies/manipulators. I often don't see them until it's too late and I've almost lost my job before due to a bitch of a bully who was laying the blame for her mistakes at my door. IME, they tend to sense people who can be manipulated easily.

Finally, try to avoid assuming and pigeon-holing. I have Asperger's but I'm also very capable and do things that many people with Asperger's wouldn't - I travel a lot for work for example, I'm actually good in client situations (I know the social rules for those)...having a boss who has had the faith to let me do these things has been amazing for me.

I appreciate the OP is being slammed but I do think it may be a little unfair depending on the age demographic they are asking about.

My child’s greatest wish is for their parents to deal with all of this stuff and this includes employers. Obviously we don’t as it’s not appropriate and we constantly try and equip and enhance their tools to do so. However if they got a general feedback request (sent to everyone) with what the OP is asking they wouldn’t do it. If forced they would respond in writing, “don’t know” or “it’s all fine” whether it is or not - basically anything to make it go away as quickly as possible. That’s after trying to give it to one of us to fill in and having to endure ‘the talk’ on why they have to do it. That’s a kid doing very well in a very competitive and challenging uni course. They do work outside their course and by god if they could foist off all employer related contact onto us they would . Maybe this is why OP has asked?

I’m guessing that older individuals with more workplace experience and who are more comfortable with responding to what the OP is asking would prefer that they were asked directly but not everyone would.

Look into Workplace it will encourage connection/collaboration without having to overcome social issues.

Connect with other companies, if you know of any [https://www.facebook.com/HarrySpecters/ Harry Specters.]] A lot (the majority, I believe) of their employees are on the spectrum, maybe ask what initiative they use?

To those saying ask the people themselves, do you know how confronting this could be for them? I think op is making a great effort to get started with this.

Thank you for making the effort, op.

I’d recommend contacting RBS and asking them how they manage Aspies in their workplaces. They were absolutely marvellous with my Aspie daughter.
She was given a one to one meeting before starting, and asked specifically which workplace adjustments she would find helpful- they even provided a private escape room where she could go and “stim” if stressed. With her consent, her entire team were given a briefing on how to work with Aspies and pointers on suitable management styles.
RBS also set up a network for Aspies, and they had video conferencing for them, so there was no social stress about having to meet in person. My DD and a male Aspie colleague hosted one for 200 Aspies, where they discussed their needs or problems at work.
DD found it incredibly supportive, especially after a manager at her previous major financial company actually asked her “So, is your autism cured yet?”
I wish companies would share best practice with each other, it would save you all having to laboriously reinvent the wheel!

[https://www.facebook.com/HarrySpecters/ Harry Specters.]]

Wow, this link hates me...

Harry Specters.

I think Fleet and Pickle have made some good points.

Many posters have pointed out that people with asd are all different- both my children have Asperger's, but they are the complete opposite of one another, because one is an extrovert and one is an introvert!
What one would seek in a comfortable environment the other would loath.

As pickle points out- making the workplace comfortable (I mean mentally, not just physically) for people with asd actually makes it comfortable for everyone, so why not just allow employees more control over their own local environment?

The biggest issue for many employees is open-plan, boiling hot/freezing cold rooms, oppressive silence/non-stop noise and interruption, changing work stations every day, having no storage etc etc.
Get the environment right for everyone, and it's a good place to work.

@Bilbobaggins18 speaking as someone diagnosed with autism and with a job in a tech company where I work remotely from my employer and sometimes don't see another employee for days on end, I do find it very odd that you are directing your questions at parents of people like me rather than at people like me. (I am also a parent).

Nevertheless.
(1) don't assume one-size fits all. We are all individuals and will have different needs and coping mechanisms
(2) think through what you actually want to achieve. Presumably this is something like happy, motivated staff who work well together as a team and achieve good things for the company. Your base assumption that getting employees to interact more socially may not be accurate. They may not want a "tribe". Figure out how to measure the thing you actually want.

With (1) in mind, what I would want is probably not universal but I most appreciate :

• flexibility. I will regularly get quite obsessed with a project and might well work ridiculous hours getting something perfect. I then may need a flex day to sleep. Alternatively if I have been required to do something with a high amount of face-to-face contact (eg going to a conference) I will definitely need to have a couple of days where I don't need to talk to anyone.

• structure. If there are staff socials where the plan is just to stand/sir around and drink/eat it can be awkward and painful. Structured activities like quizzes are more bearable for me as I know what to do.

• company intranet forum - something not unlike mumsnet with a social section for discussing interests and organising activities where people can socialise without having to use their voice or see people on days when that would be a bit much.

• presumably some of your employees are "neurotypical". Make sure that those people are encouraged to interact with their colleagues in ASD-friendly ways. They mustn't be allowed to assume that being sociable/outgoing/extrovert is "better" or that getting a colleague with ASD to more effectively mimic NT behaviour is desirable.

*loathe, sorry.

I've recently been diagnosed with Aspergers. I do a fairly well paid job that I'm good at, but have never been able to progress in it. I informed my manager of my diagnosis and there is now a concerted effort within the company to see what they can do about career paths for people like me, since the 'standard' career path is unlikely to work...

So in answer to your question OP, think about career progression and what abilities/skills/criteria might be required, since you may well find that the 'regular' career path may not work in all situations.

Also, think very carefully about Christmas parties and team building events etc. The mere thought of such things causes me to break out in a cold sweat (honestly, role-playing in a training session or team-building event quite literally would make me have nightmares) so don't assume that encouraging people - or worse, making them mandatory to attend - is beneficial.

Ask them and don't try and make them into you.

You say "I worry that they can get isolated in their technical roles, perhaps with a remote manager based in the US. We would like them to connect more with social groups locally"

They are highly talented because they are the way they are. If they don't want to socialise - don't make them.