Ds, Remembrance Day, white poppy- Daily Mail do your worst!

[BertrandRussell]

We are a pacifist family and we have always worn a red and a white poppy together at this time of the year. This year 17 year old ds has chosen to wear a white one on it's own to his school remembrance service. I probably could have insisted he wear the two together as usual-should I have done? He was asked to take a significant role in the service and declined- the Head was very accepting of his reasons. I don't think he's just being a teenage dick-he's wearing a suit and has cleaned his shoes (is there anything more heart melting than a nearly adult boy in a suit?)-but ..but...what should I have done?

If the white poppy is about remembering all victims of war, does that include the Nazis who were killed too?

I ask this as a genuine question, because I'm not against the thought of wearing a white poppy alongside my red one, but I certainly don't want it to be in remembrance of the very people who held my grandmother in a concentration camp, and starved and tortured her.

I think the key word here might be "victims" of war. There were plenty of German victims of war.......

He is not engaging in teenage posturing, imho, he has been brought up to wear a white and a red poppy. If anything he is rebelling against his parents by going a step further than they agree with. Having thought about it, taken a position and respectfully communicated that.

Choice to wear or not wear a symbol. To follow a different tradition relevant to the date and occasion.

It's interesting to think that if he is not far off the age where he would have been conscripted during the world wars.

He wouldn't have had a choice. Boys like him are some of the people commemorated by the red poppy. He should consider this - how he would feel and what would he do?

I hope he would follow in the family tradition and become some sort of medic. His grandfather, for example, served on an Australian hospital ship which was bombed several times, and was also involved in liberating POWs in the Pacific.

bert

He should wear what he wants and I admire him for his actions.
Did you see the news where they showed you just one of the mass graves of German soldiers from ww1?, there were 25k in just one.

A German man was talking who said that they hadn't had any education about ww1, like the English and French have, he was adamant that this was the reason it was allowed to happen again with Hitler. The first generation didn't know much about it.

I think your son is right he should stand up for what he believes.
We don't always see eye to eye but wanted to say you have raised a lovely lad, I'd be so proud if he was mine.

My mum was born in Italy in the 1930s She has a childhood memory of hiding in the cellar from soldiers.

I’ve only read the first few posts because I was so surprised at the vitriol against the white poppy, or lack of red one.

The white poppy is obviously still there to commemorate rememberance day, that’s why it’s sold. Since war is still very real and we absolutely do glamorise war or military still, I can understand why people feel it’s a choice they want to make to also celebrate the idea of non violence.

It’s not a fuck you to those who have served and lost their lives for goodness sake. Honestly, I agree that the outrage is absolutely holding an element of “look at me” - just causing aggravation about pacifist beliefs.

Rememberance is important and poignant, if someone is wearing a white copy get over yourself it and stand by your own values and opinions. There is no need to choose to see disrespect or whatever other emotions you are predicting onto others.

*poppy

*projecting

i just googled to have a look at what was going on in Naples during World War 2 found some links and some of them were appalling far right sites from what i could tell.

Quite honestly I don't give a damn what your son does or does not wear.

I wear a red poppy to honour all those who died and were affected by both world wars. My Grandfather fought in the trenches in WW1 up to his knees in mud and guts. He fortunately survived but so many of his friends did not. He refused to talk about it to the day he died. One of my Uncles who was in WW2 came home with only one arm. Friend's Fathers weren't so lucky. All long dead but not forgotten.

There are enough people who will wear the red poppy which quite honestly makes your DS's choice insignificant.

i clicked on a couple of those sites to look at info but came off there double quick when i realized what they were.

my mum doesnt like to talk about it so i was trying to find out more.

it's not insignificant to him though.
Surely it's what you believe in that counts. It doesn't belittle anyone.
I refuse to wear one at all, it's my choice.

How ridiculous honestly. Your views or anyone else’s do not invalidate this young man’s, not do his invalidate yours - why would or should they? Really childish thinking frankly, I can’t undertand it at all

"They promised us homes fit for heroes. They gave us heroes fit for homes"

John Sullivan Only Fools and Horses.

My great uncle was a conscientious objector, due to religious beliefs. (Quaker).He didn't fight, but he did risk his life by fire fighting in London.

He wore a red poppy.

My Uncle died in second world war, he was 19, his Dad (my gd) never got over it and died 2 years later.
I don't wear a poppy, my parents didn't because we don't believe you only remember them in November.
My grandma thought Churchill was a warmonger, before any of her family were killed. The toffs sending young men to the slaughter, whilst they sat in cosy bunkers.

White poppies aren't disrespectful and the message is perfectly appropriate for a memorial service. It's fine. Others attending may wear the poppy they want to wear, or not, and may have an opinion on others poppy wearing or not. They aren't, however, entitled not to expect white poppies not to be worn.

And the attention seeking claims are pathetic.

Some people wear Purple or Black poppies too, as well as red and white.
They don't think any less of the men who died.

Interesting that the returning soldiers voted Churchill out at the first possible opportunity.......

I don't see that wearing a white poppy is disrespectful. It's saying that all those people dying in war is a tragedy that should never be repeated. The poppy remembers the sacrifice people made for our freedom. They are almost contradictory sentiments as the red poppy sees war as a necessary evil and the white sees war as something that can never be justified, so I can see your ds's reasoning if he is a pacifist, and I don't think he is being a dick. You can go to a memorial for any number of different reasons - your ds is remembering the dead much as one would remember victims of a terrorist attrocity. That might not be how some people want to remember the war dead, but I don't think anyone can call it disrespectful just because someone has a different opinion to you, especially as this is not a funeral of an individual but a centenary commemoration of a world war.

Churchill was a racist imperialist who let all those people starve to prove a point.

The toffs sending young men to the slaughter, whilst they sat in cosy bunkers.
That is a despicable comment and quite untrue. Thousands of officers were killed.

Interesting that the returning soldiers voted Churchill out at the first possible opportunity.......
Interesting that they voted him in again in 1951.

If the white poppy is about remembering all victims of war, does that include the Nazis who were killed too?

I ask this as a genuine question, because I'm not against the thought of wearing a white poppy alongside my red one, but I certainly don't want it to be in remembrance of the very people who held my grandmother in a concentration camp, and starved and tortured her.

My maternal grandfather was captured and tortured in a Japanese prisoner of war camp in WWII. I'm only saying that for some context, not comparing our family experiences. But there are evil people on both sides of history, it goes without saying that we're not honouring war criminals when we remember anyone other than British war victims.