children soooo tired - how to deal with them?

[itsboiledeggsagain]

3 DC aged 6, 5, 3.

They are exhausted. Like - they just had a week of school not doing too much and they are on their knees. It has tipped over the edge because we had a day out yesterday (9-3pm) but they have been getting this way for a few weeks now.

They go to bed at 6 - always. The older 2 sleep until 7 and normally dont wake in the night. The little one is a poor sleeper and we have been teaching him not to call us at night. He normally sleeps until about 6.30 and has a gro clock.

The problem is that they really need to go to bed at about 4pm. I can barely stretch them to 6. After school is a teary mess so I have bought tea forward to 4.30. I try to get some of the older ones into pjs before tea as that is another meltdown at the mo. I often carry the middle one up and put her in bed at about 5.30 and do her teeth in bed. They all fight and squabble all the time. The 3 year old runs riot and kicks and fights teeth, nappy and pjs.

And I try not to lose my rag.

Does anyone have any tips of how I can make it easier? All i have is "this too will pass".....

Bed at 6 is very early for a 6 year old? That's unusual. How's their diet? Could they be anemic?

Are they having a hot school lunch and a good protein /carbohydrate snack as soon as they are home? They sound unnaturally tired tbh. Have your gas appliances been serviced this year?

very good diet, eats variety and volume.

middle child suffers the most, she had full bloods done earlier in the year, came back fine. Were testing for coeliac mostly, super tired being one of the symptoms. They both slept for 3h a day a few times a week until starting school.

Youngest has given up nap, although he benefits if we can force one on him in the pushchair or car

yes hot lunch and big portion of macaroni cheese for tea.

Yes gas appliances regularly serviced and we have a co alarm. It has not suddenly come on, it is just worse than normal, and bloody difficult getting 3 knackered children into bed by yourself night after night.

bath doesnt happen every night, although they had one last night because DH was here, but that was horrific too as they cant be nice to each other when they are so tired - screaming, yelling, fighting, all got pulled out one after another.

That does seem really unusual op particularly a six year old being ready for bed at 4pm. You know your dcs best but are you certain it’s tiredness? My dcs are the opposite in that they are very high energy and if it’s not burned off they get agitated and fight a lot more. A good dose of fresh air and exercise and they are in better form and calmer. We often go after school as they are sitting down too long for them. The days we don’t get out are so rare but also painful as they end up cranky and fighting. How long are they in school for?
I am just using this example of mine to give another perspective.

I started reading this for some tips as I was proper jealous of someone whose children get tired but this doesn’t seem
Right at all OP - if not medical could
It be lethargy? They’re not doing much so they’ve got in the habit of sleeping more than they should?

Bed at 4pm!!!

On the one hand I feel jealous! But it doesn't sound quite right. Have they been tested for vit d deficiency. I know some people just need more sleep than others but it sounds extreme

What's the quality of sleep like? Could that be an issue?

Are they getting enough fresh air and exercise?

I think it sounds like they could still do with a nap.
In france they still let kids that age nap at school.

They don't go to bed at 4pm. They just need to.

Hmmm maybe I should do an after school nap one day? Might ruin all sleep patterns forever.

Yes people are jealous of their nerd for sleep but tbh it is restrictive. Halloween / bonfire night and after school activities are all a bit limited.

They do get plenty of fresh air and are active at home. They don't watch much telly so are generally dancing about, doing imaginative play etc. I put the teuoly on today to see if that is how other people coped but although it kept them sitting still it was still just as bad after. I did consider doing teeth in front of it so they wouldn't notice me doing them and whinge.

What does grumpy and tired look like for others? Sleepy isn't a demonstrated emotion here, more like cantankerous

How do they look? Have the got dark circles?

I agree that is very unusual, esp for all of them, and would be pursuing it with your family doctor.

And listen to their needs. Try putting them to bed at 5?

Coeliac isn't always shown up by a blood test.

Have you tried a gluten free diet for a month or so to see if it helps? I know all the advice is to keep eating gluten until you get tested but if you still have a suspicion it's worth a try just to rule it out.

What does grumpy and tired look like for others?

Mine are nearly 5 and 3, and need their 12 hours sleep. Tired for them varies really... DD1 gets a bit whingey and just tells me she’s tired. DD2 zones out a bit and will veg out on the sofa when she’s tired. They don’t really get cantankerous and argue, although sometimes tiredness has this effect.
It does sound unusual for them to be getting so tired.

So they're just grumpy? In what way? I'm not convinced this is tiredness.

there is a point at which they will wake up earlier if we put them to bed earlier - eg 5.45 means 5.30am ish for the toddler. So we try to stretch them out. Occasionally they get a 5.30.

They could do with an occasional long weekend nap but it is hard for them to wind down to sleepy and they resist naps now - little one is a horror and the older two know they are really a bit old for it.

Middle one has dark circles, other two have darker complexions so it would be less obvious.

Family doctor has dismissed it as it is not all year round - they are certainly worse in the winter. SAD possibly.

Vit D and a general multivitimin is a good idea - can anyone recommend one?

I am mulling over the comments re lethargy / not doing enough. I dont think it is that but it is true that we rarely go for long walks / long days out and often on a saturday we stay in all day or just walk down to library for a bit.

What time would they sleep until if you didn’t wake them, say at the weekend?
So if they went to bed at 6pm what time would they naturally wake up?

You could try bringing bedtime forward by 10 mins at a time, so a few nights putting them to bed at 5.50pm and if no improvement then try 5.40pm for a few days. See if it makes any difference.

I do agree with others though, it does sound like there is something else going on as it’s not normal for a 6 year old especially to need so much sleep.

One more thing you could try.. you can get a vitamin D spray. It tastes like peppermint and it’s just one spray in the mouth once a day. Holland & Barrett or Boots sell it. Give it a few weeks to see if it helps. Most people, children and adults, are vitamin D deficient, especially during the winter months when there is less sunshine. It might help?

So the main symptoms of their tiredness is that they’re cantankerous and argue/fight with each other? Could it be a behavioural issue rather than tiredness?

tears at the drop of a hat.
Argue the sky is green.
droop around
suck thumbs
refuse to : go for a wee, move toys out the way at the table, go up the stairs
argue with each other.

Their normal personality is they are very sharing, kind and helpful. None of this behaviour is normal, although it is frequent iyswim.

For eg they sit in church quietly every week for a couple of hours - yesterday i had to take the 6 yo old out for shouting at me during hymns. and the 3 yo old twice too for crying at some sibling injustice I didnt see. I last took the 6 yo out when she was about 2. She is very well behaved normally.

The eldest 2 are at school though aren’t they? I wouldn’t expect you to need lots of activity on top of the school day.

Tbh at those ages my children would just say they were tired and wanted to go to bed- I wouldn’t be looking or signs. Do they tell you they want to go to bed?

They sound bored rather than tired? Do you go to the park/woods/on bikes etc? I'd try more fresh air and a later bedtime and see if that helps for a bit.

That just sounds like normal kids to me.

I think needing bed at 430 is really very unusual. Even with early risers. I'd be suspicious that something else is going on... dietary, health, lack of exercise, socio-emotional stuff, etc.

What are they like when you go on hioliday? Still needing bed very early or different, livelier kids?

X-poat but to me that doesn't sound entirely like tiredness to me. Sitting in church for 2 hours every weekend at age 6, 5 & 3? That is a lot actually, when added to school hours. Do they get enough time.to be ill-disciplined? To be kids?