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Wincing at my brother "dramatically" telling off his children

37 replies

letsgomaths · 26/10/2018 19:45

Recently I saw my brother and his daughters; always a pleasure for us, I only see them occasionally because we live far apart. We're close in age, but we have very different temperaments: I'm an introvert and used to be a people-pleaser, he's very loud and thrives on drama; nothing there has changed since we were children. For full disclosure I am not a parent (so I expect his methods are none of my business), also he had the children on his own that day as their mum was at work, so he was probably a bit stressed. Also, although we have a good relationship as adults, we squabbled a lot as children; each of us would always want to be "right".

I know, the usual MN spiel, I only saw a snapshot, maybe things were more fraught than usual because it was half term. But here it is, and I've seen similar on other visits: while I was there, it sounded as if he was constantly nagging them, putting them in their place every few minutes, always using a special "telling off" voice. He'd interrupt a conversation with "Come on, eat up, letsgomaths has almost finished." When one of the children (aged 4) moaned about being cold, his reply was "Are you whining? Do you live in Whinesville? Is your name Princess Whine of the kingdom of Whinedom??", his voice rising to a crescendo. I suppose it's meant to be good-natured, but it's very "dramatic" in my view, far more than the original whine from the child. I couldn't help wondering if the children play up to it, because his replies are so dramatic. A few times during the day, I was thinking "I'm glad he's not my dad", because as a child I hated sarcastic replies. The children seem to forget each telling-off after a few minutes, but I remember being silent and upset for a long time if I was told off, especially if I thought it was unfair.

At one point, when one of the children was about to go outside, I said "no, daddy told you not do". My brother said (grandly and dramatically) "thank you for backing me up, I wish our parents would!". Fair enough.

When one of the children spilt some bubble mix in the living room, he really lost his temper, shouted at her and made her cry, then stormed upstairs to fetch clothes for her, slamming doors as he went. He did apologise to her a few minutes later; I kept very quiet but I was reminded of our dad doing exactly the same thing, and how much I feared scenes like this at home.

And near the end of my visit, he and I were chatting about old films, and one of us said "that one's awful". One of the children (aged 6)chipped in with "What's awful?" My brother then snapped "Can't I just have a conversation for once, without you butting in????" He sounded so angry about this, and I was so stunned and shocked that I couldn't continue the conversation. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to undermine him, but I thought that was deeply unfair to the child; and again, I remembered being unexpectedly told off like that at the same age. I ended up staying longer than planned because I didn't want to leave on that note.

Again, all this may be none of my business; maybe it says more about me than about him, he might just be "louder" than I am, it's their way of doing things, and as a non-parent I'm probably in no position to criticise his methods. However, I found this really painful to watch. I have a vivid memory of my own childhood, and I remember really hating being told off, fearing being shouted at, especially unexpectedly, as with his daughter asking "what's awful?". Yes, perhaps I just felt differently about it from him; perhaps he thrives on "conflict" while I really don't like it at all. Although I think our parents got most things right, I remember some really heated shouting matches, which would always put the fear of God into me because they sometimes ended in me being smacked.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the reason I care so much about this is because I feel that history might repeat itself, before my very eyes (apart from the smacking, as far as I know he draws the line at that). I don't want to interfere, but right now I'm really wanting to tell him a cautionary tale about me: as a child, teenager, and even a young adult, I often did not ask for help when I really needed it, because I was afraid of our parents' reaction, and I remember encouraging him to keep his mouth shut if we were in on something together. If I broke something while their backs were turned, I would never own up to it; I would lie, hide the evidence, try to blame my brother, etc. As a teenager, if I got into trouble at school over homework, I'd lie to cover it up, to the extent of forging my mum's signature on detention paperwork, because I didn't want to tell her about it. (Result: I got into far more trouble later.) As a young adult, I never told my parents what I was doing until my projects were well-established, in case they had a bad reaction. It's only later that I realised that owning up to mistakes straight away is valued by many people.

Seeing him really losing it with his daughter about the bubble mix incident made me wonder: in a few years' time, will she dare to ask for help if she needs it? If one of the children accidentally lets the puppy out of the front door, will they own up to it, or will they pretend nothing happened, as I used to? My parents never did have the conversation "always tell us if something goes wrong: we might be cross at first, but we'd much rather you told us", or "lying is far worse than the original crime". My dad said that he grew up in a family full of conflict; he only learned to be calmer long after my brother and I grew up.

OP posts:
Stormwhale · 26/10/2018 19:55

Unfortunately people often either parent in the same way their parents did (ie your brother taking after your dad) or they go polar opposite.

Other than having a very uncomfortable conversation with your brother where you criticize his parenting style, I can't see what you can do. It's not abuse exactly, but it's not nice either. I think the conversation would end up with your brother reacting defensively and possibly mean you spend less time around the children.

I think I would focus on my own relationships with the children. I would aim to give them a kind role model who they know they can talk to. I would also praise them as often as possible to try and build them up, in hope of counteracting your brother constantly knocking them down.

Graphista · 26/10/2018 20:02

None of that sounds particularly bad to me.

You however sound very sensitive as a person generally - that's not necessarily a criticism but it's unusual.

You're looking at it ALL through the lens of how you as a child and a particularly sensitive child would have felt about it.

May not be popular on mn but I think being a little fearful of parents isn't necessarily a bad thing. Too often these days parents go too far the other way imo.

As for the "can't I get a conversation in peace?" Comment as a parent I can absolutely relate to that! Numerous threads on here of parents never getting a moments peace to even go to the loo! It's wearing!

His reaction on the bubble spillage MIGHT have been a bit much but he's also only human!

As you said repeatedly through the op you're not a parent - I also strongly get the feeling you're not even very experienced in looking after/being around children. So you're not used to these type of interactions generally.

All seems very normal to me. (Cue a heap of mners saying how awful
It is!)

Anyway that's my take

Notacluewhatthisis · 26/10/2018 20:03

It's difficult to say. Because quite frankly most of that seems normal.

Most parents have lost their temper and slammed about a bit. Depends on how often it's happening.

Tbh, I think you wading in likening it to abuse is going to end up with him cutting you off even more.

I had kids before my dbro. He now has 2. After his were born he told me 'I was a much parent before I had kids' and he admitted to silently judging me for things, thinking how he would never do the same things. They he had them and realised it wasn't as perfect as he planned it.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Notacluewhatthisis · 26/10/2018 20:04

And god yes, I have asked my kids if I could possibly have a conversation in peace.

zippey · 26/10/2018 20:08

I’ll sort of reserve judgement but I do agree with you - that kind of talk with a child can have negative reactions from a child.

Escolar · 26/10/2018 20:09

I get you OP. My brother was a bit like this with his DD when she was younger (esp the whining example) and it made me cringe.

It sounds as if you and your brother are at opposite ends of a 'normal' range of parenting behaviour. I do understand why you feel so upset about it, because it triggered unhappy childhood memories for you, but honestly nothing you've said sounds that bad, unless one of his DC is a particularly sensitive child like you were.

I wouldn't mention anything to him. He's unlikely to agree with you and even more unlikely to want to / be able to change what sounds like a fundamental part of his personality.

Cel982 · 26/10/2018 20:11

The "Princess of Whinedom" stuff sounds cringey and exhausting, but harmless. The overreaction to the bubble mixture thing isn't nice. It's not uncommon, lots of parents lose their rag at incidents like this, but it's still not ok. Very difficult to criticise him without damaging your relationship, though.
I think, as a PP has said, all you can do is try to be a trusted, sensitive adult in these children's lives.

NewspaperClippings · 26/10/2018 20:14

Perhaps not quite as much as your brother, but I have snapped at my kids and felt terrible afterwards. It usually happens because I'm shattered and have no-one to take them and give me and my partner a break. Could you say you enjoyed seeing them and offer to babysit?

BerriesandLeaves · 26/10/2018 20:20

I agree with you, he doesn't sound good with them. It sounds like his default is to be negative to them, to snap at everything they say and to lose it if they make a mistake.

Jamdani · 26/10/2018 20:21

On the fence here. On the one hand that doesn't sound like brilliant parenting, but on the other hand it sounds like fairly normal parenting. Because being a brilliant parent is hard and basically no-one manages it. As others have said, you do sound very over sensitive and as if you have no real understanding of family life.

MathsQuery · 26/10/2018 20:23

Some of it sounds a bit harsh. But to be honest, the best parents are always the ones who are not a parent. Wink

I can honestly say I have had days like that with my two, particularly at the end of a school holiday. Pre children I just couldn't fathom it. But believe me, your own children can drive you to a crazy place you didn't know possible.

Jellyonawonkyplate · 26/10/2018 20:51

The first thing that struck me about your post is that you sound like the dramatic one.

Graphista · 26/10/2018 21:05

MathsQuery they know EXACTLY which buttons to press don't they?! Eg dd wouldn't do certain things that annoy her bffs mum I think because she knows they wouldn't bother me but her bff WILL do those things with her mum BECAUSE she knows they annoy her mum and there's stuff bffs mum doesn't bother about that really annoy me.

Dd is also only JUST learning with some things - when in a hole quit digging!

LucilleBluth · 26/10/2018 21:20

With the greatest respect op, you sound overly sensitive. Parenting very hard work, we all say do things we don't mean and feel bad, guilt is the number one emotion of parenting.

MargaretCavendish · 26/10/2018 21:32

I think you maybe have a slightly exaggerated sense of how unusual this is. Everyone likes to think their teens would come to them with their problems, but the vast majority don't at least some of the time. You seem to think your parents failed very badly in this regard, but is it time to think about whether you're holding them to an unrealistic standard? Part of growing up is accepting that your parents are/were people, not omnipotent beings. I'm not condoning abuse and perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but it seems that you think all non-ideal parenting is emotionally scarring. Which is probably true, but that's also why there's not a single person alive with no emotional scars at all.

BoneyBackJefferson · 26/10/2018 21:34

Not your circus, not your monkeys.

Thecomfortador · 26/10/2018 21:43

After the day I've had, I understand where your brother might be. As others have said it is not brilliant parenting but my word, they don't half push you to the brink sometimes. It is easy to overreact to stuff when you haven't had a chance to reset yourself. Maybe focus on your relationship with the children and be the best aunt they have, that will be far more valuable than bringing if up with him.

Flyaway78 · 26/10/2018 22:08

I think your instincts are right. That’s shitty parenting.

Sadly you can’t intervene but you can be a kind supportive Aunt.

letsgomaths · 26/10/2018 22:27

Thanks for your replies so far. I made the OP because I just found some of the things that happened that day really jarring and couldn't stop thinking about them; and I suppose it's more complicated because as he's my brother, and we're so close in age, we have the same parents; maybe he doesn't dwell on childhood issues as much as I do. And perhaps my view is clouded because he's my brother, rather than a stranger. As some of you spotted, I don't spend a lot of time with younger children (although I do with teenagers), and there were almost no other children (e.g. cousins) alongside us in the family. Being able to remember my childhood quotes, sights and even feelings so vividly is very much a mixed blessing; I can recall conversations, good and bad, nobody else in the family remembers. As for now, perhaps I'm only noticing the negative stuff. I know I'm a very sensitive person, and that I used to get upset about lots of things other children didn't. I'm expect I am an idealist who wants the world to be a nicer place, children always to be perfectly happy, etc. Totally unrealistic, I know. But I do remember which adults in my life I respected, and it wasn't those who shouted or put me down, even jokingly.

I don't intend to say anything, tempting though it is; my instinct was telling me all along to keep my counsel, and to be fair, he didn't try to blame anything on me, he didn't say to me "why weren't you watching them?". In spite of this, I very much enjoy seeing him and his family; as a child I really valued the aunts and uncles in my life, so I want to be part of theirs, and they all seem to like having me around. I haven't looked after the children on my own yet, but perhaps I will take them on trips when they are older. I don't see them so often because we live about a hundred miles apart.

OP posts:
tiredtiredtiredtired · 26/10/2018 22:35

Oh gosh. @letsgomaths sounds similar to my upbringing. It affects your outlook in life, I was afraid of making mistakes, hated owning up to things, avoided conflict and confrontation. My confidence was shot. Only now as an adult with small kids I'm learning how not to parent them like my mum parented us. I try not to shout, or get super angry, unless it really is the 20th time I've told them not to do something.

I would say something to your DB. It's horrible. That man is a person of security and assurance for those kids and kids make mistakes and forget things, it's not fair to berate them about small things constantly

Petitepamplemousse · 26/10/2018 22:42

Goodness me, I’m surprised at some of the replies. I think he sounds like a very harsh and overly authoritarian parent.

missyB1 · 26/10/2018 22:51

I get it OP, my childhood experience was similar. I am ashamed to say my parenting can sometimes default to that kind of behaviour because it’s what I learned from my parents I suppose. But I’m aware I do it and I try to stop and to make up for it.
I hope your brother has some insight and doesn’t react like that all the time.

You sound like a lovely aunt, stay close to those children, I could have done with an auntie like you.

Clawdy · 26/10/2018 22:55

I grew up in a household with quite a lot of bellowing and smacking, as did most of my friends, so I would have been quite happy to swap for a bit of sarcasm. Doesn't sound bad to me.

HidingFromDD · 26/10/2018 23:02

I was your brother when my children were small, I had no good role models about how to parent and really had to learn from scratch. What I would say is that, for some reason, when with family I defaulted to the 'family dynamic'. I got very very stressed when the children weren't perfect, but felt that, somehow, I couldn't use my usual parenting style (which was, thankfully, better though not perfect) as I would be judged. I guess I was insecure as a parent.

Unfortunately, you won't be able to tell whether this is his 'always' style or whether this is something he slips back to when family are around, so I can't offer advice. I guess watching how his children interact with him will show whether this is usual or just when the family are around. Maybe start some conversations around your parents behaviour but don't link it to his parenting style. If he hasn't seen any problem with it then he'll just ignore you, if he recognises that it's wrong then he's already feeling awful.

My children are adults now. I've had that open and honest conversation about how we can't always get it right, and I think they know that it was my issue not theirs.

Hisaishi · 26/10/2018 23:10

I would have been quite happy to swap for a bit of sarcasm. Doesn't sound bad to me

I grew up with yelling, smacking AND sarcasm, and it is the sarcastic remarks that I am still fucked up over. The smacking and yelling I always justified as my mum losing her temper, the sarcasm made me feel like she really loathed me and like I was beyond contempt.

I HATE this parenting style especially when used on young kids. It's so belittling.