What does the word 'butch' mean to you? Is it more about gender or sexuality?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Just trying to figure out answers to this question for some work I'm doing. It's absolutely nothing relevant to MN - I'm researching historical ideas from 500 years ago, but finding myself wondering what words we'd use to describe certain women today. As a break from work, I watched Hannah Gadsby's 'Nanette' where she says someone wrote to her saying she had a duty to identify as transgender rather than butch, and it made me think. What do you think being 'butch' is? Could you be butch without being a lesbian, do you think?

Please ignore if this is boring or intrusive!

Isn’t it simply a style?

Oh, ok - so what kind of style? You mean like certain clothes?

I would say it’s a masculine style on a woman. I’ve known both lesbian and straight butch women - I just see it as a non conformity to feminine expectations in hair and clothing.

I’m not gay but it does seem more prominent in lesbian culture but certainly isn’t exclusive to them.

My friend once said to me if I was gay I would be a 'butch lesbian' but as im straight I was a tomboy.

I see it as a style.

I can be considered fairly butch I think but I'm het. For example, I sing in a choir where the women wear all black except for pink scarves. I wear a pink bow tie and braces instead. The women wear heels. I wear brogues. I have short back and sides. Lots of people say I'm butch. I think it's a slightly masculine presentation but not simply the wearing of men's clothes.

Thanks ts, that makes sense.

bunny, that's really interesting, especially as 'tomboy' suggests something to do with childhood!

Butch implies a female with masculine traits. Not necessarily a tomboy, but one who is perhaps, quite thick set and stocky, like a man, and dresses with a masculine bias also.

I'm bisexual and I identify as butch. For me its about clothing choices, hair, how you move in space, how other people react to and read you

A manly kind of style/look, but whilst still happily identifying as a woman. And nothing wrong with that. If someone was described as butch I would picture short hair, practical clothing (not body con), and a confident sort of stance/aura I guess. Generally gay, but not necessarily. There's quite a butch school mum I know happily married to a man. She wears her hair short and tends to wear sporty shorts and trainers. No makeup either. Neither short hair nor makeup-free constitutes butch on their own though, and I wouldn't openly describe a straight woman as butch as it might be taken badly. I think it's a look combined with an particular attitude maybe?

Not conforming to cultural expectations of gender/ “femininity”: clothes, short hair, no make up.

‘Tomboy’ is a boyish, but still fairly feminine / pretty woman who is straight.
‘Butch’ is a masculine looking woman who is gay.
My take on it anyway.

Thanks all! This is really helpful.

I think of 'butch' as a specifically lesbian identity, though I know not everyone would say so. I'm interested seeing it correlated with body shape, as that hadn't occurred to me.

Yes, “butch” implies overweight and not “curvy” or dressing in fitted clothes.

“Tomboy” implies youth and being thin.

Always thought of butch in terms of gay men and their old slang.

Yes, “butch” implies overweight and not “curvy” or dressing in fitted clothes

I disagree I know a lot of women who think of themselves as, and who are described as butch who are not overweight and many of them are quite slim

I'm a straight woman, and I associate butchness with a particular look rather than a sexual orientation. For me it's about a look, hair and clothing style that would more generally be worn by men, worn by a woman.

I wouldn't assume that every woman who likes a butch style is a lesbian, but most of the women I know who dress butch are lesbians.

I've been thinking about this quite a lot recently because a friend of my daughter has been considering her gender identity. She's in a relationship with a girl and has a very classic butch style. For a a while she considered herself non-binary, because she likes to dress butch and likes girls. As far as I know she now considers herself as female, and a lesbian (while still being very butch in her personal style). It made me think about whether we're getting more reductive about gender and presentation, rather than more accepting of difference.

Why overweight?! Wow. That's not one I expected.

I always grumble that taking photos with my roommate I look like her butch girlfriend (I'm straight). I am much more comfortable with little/no makeup, jeans and a tshirt. My roommate wears mainly dresses and skirts and we look so different next to each other.

Oooh everyone seems to think differently to me so I don’t know if this will be useful. Anyway. To me ‘butch’ is similar to stocky, built like a brick shithouse, and also no ‘frills’ to appearance. Used for men or women. A butch man is like the Mitchell twins on Eastenders. A butch woman may or may not wear make up but they are very much practical in style. Unlikely to wear foundation but may have a strong coloured lippy or eye makeup.

Essentially I envisage someone butch to be both capable of lifting and carrying something heavy, and wearing the kind of practical clothing that would make that possible.

I know on MN it’s a term very much used for women - butch lesbian - but growing up in the west country, it was/is a masculine word used for either men or women.

waxy, what slang is that?

I only know of butch as slang in lesbian communities - didn't know gay men used the term?

To me, butch is a female who looks like a bloke. Overweight, very short hair, very masculine. And is usually a lesbian

batteries, this is really useful! Fascinating that it's a regional difference, too. Where I grew up (East Mids) there wasn't a specific word for that sort of person, but you'd hear the phrase 'he/she's not mardy in the wet' to mean 'this person is practical all the time'. I think it had similar connotations of being an all-weather practical person.

Gender.

But I don't like the word. It's a bit of a pathetic stereotype.

But yes masculine clothing/attributes to a female.
Mopposite of sissy.