I was THAT Mum today

[runwithme]

Feeling rotten with a cold but no chance to rest. Going through house renovations and looking at secondary schools for DS1 so every spare minute is spent doing that, plus work, usual kids clubs, housework blah blah.

This weekend DS2 also had two parties to go to, so it's been full on as I've been at home doing decorating, running him to the parties, coming back to the house, going back to get him and then back home.
DS2 is 6 and is a loving, cuddly, affectionate soul. He also switches to temper tantrum mode very quickly. He's ALWAYS asking for toys when we go out and has a full meltdown when I say no. I've tried ignoring him,but he just gets hysterical, acts (maybe that's the wrong word) scared as I walk away. I tell him clearly the options or what the plan is. I tell him very firmly before we go out -"no toys". But he persists when out.

And the tantrum isn't just about toys. He says things are too hard (2x tables -should he know this by now?) and has a meltdown. He'll play fight with DS1 who may take it too far, or DS2 doesn't get his way and he'll breakdown. The whining and whingeing is relentless. I hate it.

It's been like this since he was 2. It has not eased up. The only saving grace is that he's a different kid at school so no special needs. He's a handful for my mum, me, my husband and PIL.

I'm so tired of it. I stand and watch him and think "I don't know how to deal with this. Please stfu!!!" And I cry. And that's what I did today in public. Two women actually fucking laughed. He was kicking off about wanting a toy that he would pay for. There are reasons why we can't get it now (big Lego set, house renovations). He kicked off big time. I tried calmly dealing with it but he didn't listen. Refused. So my voice got angrier, louder, crosser. It had no change on him. He only stopped when I broke down in tears. I hate that. Why does it get to that stage. Why doesn't he just listen?!

I know this brain dump is long so I don't expect lots of replies but if I can just get one pearl of wisdom...

Oh and I've tried reward chart. Does not work at all. He ignored it completely.

Why doesn't he listen? Because unfortunately he can see that you aren't quite in control in that moment and so he tries to use it to his advantage. I think my focus would be putting across the impression that I am calm and fully in control. I find with dd if I calmly, but firmly tell her what is happening, and my tone makes it clear I am certain and will not change my mind, she gives up.

I will also add that i will walk away from dd and the item she is begging for once I have explained. This makes it clear that I'm not interested in hearing her scream and shout. To be honest it very very rarely gets to that stage any more any way.

My DS 6 isn't exactly the same, but has occasional horrendous anger issues - hitting, saying horrible things, screaming and shouting etc. He ruined the first few days of our holiday this year, till we came up with a solution. Bearing in mind he's never been impressed by reward charts either. Every time we had a 'stand off' with him, if he managed to calm himself down without having a melt down, he could choose a pebble to put in a pot. Pebbles were then exchanged for money (20p per pebble, I think). He's quite materialistic, and I think having something tangible helped.

I'm sorry, I have no advice (because I don't have kids yet), but just wanted to say that I'm sorry. I bet that was hard for you. Big hugs.

I hope someone who knows more about these things is along soon with proper advice.

You're bound to get some people telling you to toughen up or similar. Ignore them. Life is really difficult sometimes and you're doing your best.

I'm sorry today was difficult for you. My son was a perfect angel at school and a stubborn little whiney wingey soul at home. Turned out he has high functioning Aspergers. I went to a zillion parenting courses but things would never work - it was only after he was unfortunately getting bullied at school that I sent him to a therapist to learn some skills in dealing with the bullies...and she realised he had Aspergers. My son is also loving and affectionate and made eye contact (although I guess prob less than other children). His affectionate side is actually part of his Aspergers - he has over sensitive skin so while he can find clothes itchy...he loves to cuddle and be cuddled. Another part of his Aspergers is he get stuck - when he wants something he just keeps asking for it. That said, he has had lots of therapy and now is an absolutley adorable pleasure to be around child 99 percent of the time. If he ever gets stuck I just tell him, I think you are getting stuck and he has a think about it and stops being stuck.
Prob one of the best advice I was given to help with his meltdowns (which he does not have anymore) was to explain to him we all need time to process our emotions and maybe when he had strong feelings it was a good idea to get some space to process these. I wrote myself a list of the signs that he was about to lose it i.e. raised voice, rapid questions or whatever and then I would say to him maybe he needed some time/space to work through his emotions. In a few weeks he was processing his strong emotions much more quickly to the point we did not need to do the technique anymore.

Is it possible to just resort to 'rugby ball mode' whenever he begins kicking off?

DS1 wasn't big on tantrums, he just 'got' the word no. DS2 would throw proper ear-popping tantrums in public if he heard the word. I would be patient and kind and understanding so many times, and eventually I gave in and would pick him up and just leave. Sometimes it was awkward, like if we were in a shop and I'd have to say to someone on the way out "sorry, I'm going to have to go" and ditch my stuff, but it only took a few goes before DS2 clocked that no matter how hard he tantrummed it never got him anywhere and removing him from the situation (and audience) almost made him get the message more quickly. Not a word to him, not a single word, no cajoling or anything, just scoop and leave. If he's too big to scoop, a firm handhold and leave. Only once he was in the car and quiet would I speak to him. It gave him chance to get it out of his system but also gave me extra time to be calm and quiet rather than shouty and shrill.

Some good advice from PPs. I just want to add that most of us have been there, OP. You're not alone. Those silly women who laughed should be ashamed of themselves. I wasn't in that supermarket today, but if I had have been I would have given you a hug and a hanky, or a supportive smile, or at least just minded my own business.

They laughed at you? Fucking cows.

Sounds a bit like DS behaviour was the final straw. You mentioned all the other stressful things, then this made you break down. So could the issue be the general stress in life rather than DS?

I had a really stressful week and didn't handle my 3yo very well at all (I was at home so did my crying upstairs), if it hadn't been for the shit week I'd have handled it easily. X

Okay, great advice here and it’s true you are not alone. We have all been there but TBH I just wouldn’t take him out to get a toy or to do any shopping. Start doing your shopping when he’s not there. You dont need those upsets.

If he has his own money (like birthday money) and can afford to buy a toy, maybe buy it online until he can behave himself, or let him choose it from a catalogue and buy it when he’s not there.
Talk with him today, say “I’m sorry buddy. You couldn’t listen to mama today in the shops. You wanted a toy so badly it ruined our shopping trip. Until you learn to listen to mama and do my shopping with me, I can’t take you out to the shops”.
Surely you dont have to take him shopping, especially if you have a lot on your plate.
Find someone who can keep him at home or sit for him while you shop.
Give him a picture/idea of the behaviours you want to see from him when he is out with you. Let him practice these behaviours at home and tell him when he learns this at home he can go shopping with you again (that includes toy shopping). He needs to know what’s acceptable and what’s not. Just be firm and don’t take him shopping until he gets it. He misses out until he gets some self control.
And just a hint, if the teachers at school aren’t seeing this, and he is listening at school, then he has learnt to do this at home/its a home issue. School clearly do not put up with this and he knows it. So... get firm.

We’ve all been there OP. My 3 year old had me sobbing in a supermarket a while ago while throwing the mother of all tantrums - 2 members of staff actually came over to help me get him in his buggy while some woman openly laughed and mocked me. She got an earful I can tell you.

Chin up, it won’t always be like this and if it is at least they turn 18 at some point and until then there’s always wine 🍷.

My 3 soon to be 4 year old does this daily. It is exhausting. Nothing works apart from ignoring him until he calms down. Which isn't always possible when you are out

OP, I feel your pain - my DTs (almost 3) are why I now hate shopping I just never take them out on my own unless I absolutely cannot help it. DTS1 gets massively overexcited and shrieky and DTS2 is usually quite placid, but when he gets into tantrum mode, believe me everyone within half a mile knows about it.....

Luckily there was no-one there to witness their worst ever joint tantrum a few weeks ago - I'd got them into the car by then - but I had half an hour (half a sodding hour!!) of them both crying and howling because I'd refused to buy DTS2 a car from the charity shop. He'd already had a toy, I'd run out of change and I didn't think he'd be that bothered. Silly me, eh?!

Anyhow, I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this, and that there were such unhelpful people around. Sending you belated hugs and !

Incidentally ittakes2 I'm going to look into high functioning Aspergers for DTS1 now you've mentioned it; he is a bright little lad but very highly strung and I wonder if that might apply to him? Worth looking into!

OP those women who laughed are just horrible. It all sounds so stressful for you at the moment.

When my DD gets like this, I say something like: 'I'm sorry, you can't have it now because ... I know that's disappointing. If you're good, you will be able to get it on x/y days time. But I f you make a fuss, you won't get it at all'. I have found this to work really well, though I did have to follow through a couple of times before the penny dropped that I meant it. She is younger though, so it might be that this technique wouldn't work with an older child.

Oh OP I feel your pain. It’s awful isn’t it? DD used to do this, she’s 12 now and it feels like a distant memory. I agree with PPs who have said walk away or try and remove DS from the scene. Always be concise to with your messages and never ever give into a tantrum. All very easy for me to say, not so easy when you’re in the middle of it. I like to think of parenting as 3 B’s - bribery, bargaining and blackmail - you could choose one of those as appropriate. Those women who laughed at you were bitches. for you

*consistent not “concise to”

*in to not “into”!

Can't believe people laughed, what shits.

It's fine, op, I'm that mum at least once a day!

Try not to let your brain engage with his tantrum. Calmly say "come on now" and move on to the next thing or out of the shop altogether. If he keeps carrying on, you keep acting as if he isn't.
As long as you engage with him, even saying no, he thinks there's a chance you'll give in so keeps on tantrum-ing.
Don't even think about what other people might think. That doesn't matter at all.

My second kid does this too. When I pick her up to physically remove her from a situation (because she refuses to move herself), she screams and kicks. I'm not tall and she's not small so it is really hard to carry her when she is like this. To be fair, she has always been like that. I have a memory of her sitting on the ground in a torrential downpour refusing to get into her car seat. She was about two at the time. She's three years older now and has improved a little but not much!

I don't have any advice as I tend to explode when I can't cope with it anymore and I am not advocating that for one minute. Its easy to say stay in control but if your child is anything like mine, there are days when it is just non stop tantrums and temper outbursts and it gets exhausting. The women shouldn't have laughed. I'd have given you a knowing (been there) look. Anyone with a 'spirited' kid has been there.

Hi op, I saw a behaviour specialist about my son's tantrums as they continued when he got older, and were driving me crazy.

She basically said ignore him, walk away when he's having a fit. Don't yell, don't reason with him, just give him no attention as ultimately that's what he wants. I know it's harder in the shops but he may get the idea if you start doing it at home, that tantrums equal no attention. It sounds so simple and I felt like a knob that I had to pay someone to tell me that but at the end of the day it worked.
My son will get angry and stomp off and slam his door and I'll just ignore it. Eventually he'll calm down and come out and say sorry. The tantrums have become less frequent.

She also advised me to explain his feelings to him. When he's having a meltdown he can't access the part of the brain that knows why he's upset and can reason through it. So he's having a fit over a toy and you say 'you really want the toy and are angry that I won't let you buy it. I understand that must be frustrating for you'. Google 'hand model of the brain child tantrums'.

Mines only 3 so no advice but a big hug and I hope the bitches whoaughed at you get itchy vulvas

Following if you dont mind OP. Dd2 is almost 8 and exactly as you describe. Had a horrible weekend and i have pretty much left her in front of the tv and hidden upstairs today. It is such a joy sucker. Mine hasnt improved at all with age and i am beginning to think that she WONT grow out of it. Also, way to big to manhandle anywhere. And totally determined and persistent ans undeterred by any sanctions/walking away etc

Ignore bad behaviour, just simply walk away. If he screams the place down let him. And my DS is 7 and only just started learning the 2x2 table at school, so try not judge him because your disappointed in him.

If you try calmly explaining the reasons to DS why he can't have the Lego set, then you are engaging with him in behaviour you have told him is forbidden.

So he has already crossed one line of yours - why wouldn't he hope that if he keeps on pushing the envelope you will fold?

Instead of all the patient explaining why he can't have the toy, tell him as mybalognahasafirstname suggests, 'You really want the toy and are angry that I won't let you buy it. I understand that must be frustrating for you' but add that you are not discussing the toy because you have already told him you will not be getting him any.

There are a few things you could try:

• I would advise standing there while he tantrums (as opposed to walking off) taking calming breaths, arms folded, reminding yourself that 'this too will pass', while not saying one word after your focusing statement (above). Sit it out. It's only noise.

(Obv if a member of staff intervenes and asks you to leave you are going to have to comply, but keep on not addressing DS while he is up to ninety and never, ever address the subject he wants to discuss. You can tell him that he has been kicked out of the shop for uncivil behaviour.)

Once he calms down, tell him with no hint of sarcasm that you are proud that he has managed to calm down and be civil. You can reconnect with a hug, and express the hope that the rest of the shopping trip will feature good behaviour.

• The other way to do things is to warn DS in the car when you are parked that any demands for toys will result in immediately leaving the shop and going home. You make a deal that there will be no demands, shake on it. Then if he starts up, you cut short the trip immediately. You pick up DS if necessary, and you walk out with him kicking and screaming. You abandon the trolley or whatever you intended to purchase. A few incidents like this will provide food for thought for him.

Please read ItsalmostSummer's post of Sun 23-Sep-18 21:36:46.