Childrens academic abilities, natural or as a result of parents input?

[peppersneezes000]

Following on from a thread on primary education where a poster was in disbelief her y1 daughter was in the bottom sets in comparison to her peers.
As the thread developed it transpired that the top set were getting tutoring & lots of parental help & extension work at home.
She didn't want to do this as child is only 6.
What's the general consensus on mn regarding an academic child. Imho I feel a certain amount of parental pushiness is necessary even if the child is self motivated. In my DC's school most parents seem to be extremely engaged & clued in, our school isn't a leafy middle class school & would have parents & kids from all backgrounds...

Bit of both but mostly genetic. Drive, work ethic, ambition and competitiveness can plug a gap though, making a less academically bright child overtake their peers who may be more intelligent but lack the key motivators.

As a child I was very bright academically - I read LOADS for pure enjoyment, had natural flair and ability in pretty much most subjects (except maths), glowing reports, zero parent input - went off the rails as a teenager, got fairly good GCSES despite no revision whatsoever. My mum used to say if I really tried i would frighten myself with what I was capable of. Buggered it all up as a teenager and now have a totally crap job

Op why would you need to be pushy if your child was a good student?

I'm staggered by how many dc are having extra tuition in my dc classes. Some are doing it for 11+ but many more are having it for arrange of reasons.
One of my dc is very bright and I don't push her at all. All I do is have loads of wondeful conversations about a huge range of topics.
Make sure she has all the books she wants and get or buy loads eg no one book for Xmas.. I'll get the lot.

Expose her to tons of different cultural stuff and museums etc and talk about a wide range of things I'm capable of.

Ie I'm sure our family lags well behind the likes of Rhys mog and Boris Johnson family growing up

A lot of children have tutors, mine don't. Children learn in lots of ways, through play and just free thinking. A little boy in my dd's class is tutored to within an inch of his life, and is very bright, but distractible with behaviour problems in class. I personally think he has an over structured day. My dd is amongst the brightest in her year and is just a normal child, top groups for everything and is happy, sociable and well adjusted, caring and popular. Children should be allowed to be children.
I think it's environment and genetic. My children are very similar to me in ability levels. Also think achievement is a lot to do with opportunity and good fortune, luck of birth

My 13 year old is classed as gifted and talented in relation to academic ability. I do give alot of input and always have. I help him and put in alot if effort tutoring him when exams are here. Hence why he got extremely high grades in a shool that was failing. My daughter has just started reception and I intend to be the same with her. That's a role as a parent in my opinion x

I don't think there's one definite answer really.

Physical and emotional neglect have an undeniable impact on attainment.

Tutoring can push a child but there is always the possibility that the child can parrot back information without understanding it.

It’s 50/50

Going to dip in here and say the opposite. Both me and DH are very academic - DS is not at all. We have had to learn to ease off a lot and chill - our child may not be like we were but as long as he is happy and progressing at his own pace, that's fine.

In my family, the two children who are doing the best at school have had a rotten time and no parental help at all. The others get coaching / lots of home help, and are just managing OK. It seems to be genetic in this case.

Children need parents help at first few years at school. Make it fun to learn to read new words and practice times tables. It doesn't take a lot time but will pay out in the future. It will be less straggle in the future

Mainly genetic IMO. We’re not pushy parents, never did tutoring or helped with homework much. But we both have a strong maths / science background, and DS is very good at maths (came in the top 0.01% of the kids who entered the primary maths challenge when he was in Y6).

Definitely a bit of both. You have to have prerequisite grey matter but parenting is single most important factor.

Btw. Parents help, not tutors

I was always very acedemic and sporty, did well across the board. DS1 is on another level completely academically. Much brighter than I ever was, thinks a lot more deeply, is quick witted, and thinks quickly. But has no co-ordination at all, hates sport and sees no point to it. He is autistic and this is the one thing that could hold him back, the one area he needs support, he has mental health and anxiety problems associated with his autism and the lack of support he has received in the past.

Imho, innate ability, growth mindset, hard work, in that order.

General intelligence is largely genetic. Academic success is (mostly) the result of work/opportunities.

NB 'opportunities' covers a very wide range of stuff, including tutoring, role models, parents who give a shit, access to books, etc etc etc

I mean to say, academic ability and academic attainment are two separate things

I think it's genetic. I read that the academic attainment of the Mum is the biggest predictor of how well a child will do.

IMHO, nature gives you your potential and nurture dictates how much of it you realise.

There are tons of ways to encourage your child's academic abilities, not just tutoring or extra work at home. I think a child who is properly listened to, not just yes dear what a great idea, but actual engagement/responsiveness with or to whatever they are talking about will probably have a good shot at being academically successful if the raw material is there (which might be partly genetic but not all) - the skills for academic success are pretty much the same as those used in conversation, explaining something, putting forward an idea, working out how to say what you really mean (and maybe what you actually do mean), perhaps coming up with your own answers to a question etc.

There was a study about gaps in attainment at preschool level showing that some children had heard thousands and thousands more words than others, and guess which were doing better?

Yes, we all know that time when you just cannot be arsed to think any more about how great sky cars would be, but saying 'wow, that's such a brilliant idea' is qualitatively different for the child than saying 'wow, how could that work? How would we stop them crashing into each other? How would you know where was safe to drive? Would there be another kind of road in the sky? What would you need to be able to do to pass a sky driving test?' etc. Both are nice ways to respond and will be positive for the child, but one gets the child's brain working and the other doesn't.

Also, starting early probably makes a difference IMO. I do not, by the way, mean pushing little children to read or write or do maths before they are ready! I mean genuinely encouraging them to think around a question and work out what the answer is in their own terms as much as possible. This is probably an enjoyable activity for anyone who is going to have the potential to be academically successful.

Why can't cats talk?
What do you think is different about a human and a cat? What do you think talking is useful for? Are there times when a cat would need to be able to talk? What do you think cats would say if they could talk?

is v different from

Why can't cats talk?
Only humans can talk. Humans are cleverer than cats. Humans are built differently from cats. Cats don't need to be able to talk.

I think that's where the academic attainment of mothers comes in and it must make a massive difference if you're being treated as someone who can work things out for themselves vs someone who needs to be told stuff, on all kinds of levels.

Mine is in top set for everything. My main focus was on his reading and maths at home. Nothing heavy duty just made reading really fun, and built maths into daily life. Maths is in everything if you look!
This gave them a basic building blocks which everything else it built upon.
I'm not bothered about homework execution, but ensure reading and maths at home is still strong and do buy books and toys that develop both.
Good readers make spelling and grammar easy. Basic maths is the building blocks for success in more complex maths (obvs). Luckily DC are in a school where they are stretched and developed and not held back.
Only drawback is DC are inherently lazy so I have a fear once we hit GCSE s and beyond it will all go tits up

I think genetic factors are very significant, and home environment also plays a large part. However, I don't think parental pushiness is terribly relevant in most cases.

My dd has always excelled at school - identified as "G&T" from reception onwards, perfect SAT scores in year 6, on track for outstanding GCSE results etc. I'm an extremely laid back parent with regard to the academic stuff. She is very bright and very self-motivated. There is simply no need for me to push her, no need for tutors etc. TBH, I think pushing her would actually be counter-productive, as it could end up depleting her own motivation and drive by taking that responsibility away from her.

Although I don't feel the need to push academically, dd has grown up in a house where learning is highly valued, where there is lots of lively debate and discussion, and where get parents take an active interest in her experience at school. And where the shelves are overflowing with books. I have no doubt that this environment has helped her to build on her innate talents.

I do think parental input and tutoring can make a positive difference for the bright but middling child who lacks much self-motivation. However, if all of the push and drive comes from the parent, I do wonder what eventually happens when the child is left to his/her own devices. Still, if I had a child who didn't really push herself, I suspect I'd be a bit more pushy.

Mainly genetic. I have one highly academic and one much less so, we’ve done the same with both. No tutors or anything, but encourage homework and reading.

I think it's innate but that having parents who encourage learning is important.

My parents are scientists. I fucking hated science and maths but was/am a gifted linguist and now speak five languages. My parents struggled to learn any.

We have very different brains so genetics aren't everything.

Theoretically our DCs have an advantageous starting point; well educated parents (maternal education being of particular influence statisticly) and a house full of books.

In the past year, DS1 has both been on the G&T register and the SN register as his literacy skills are significantly affected by what is probably dyslexia (possibly other issues?) and there is a significant discrepancy between his strengths and his difficulties. He's coming on well in reading because he's been supported with coloured tints, glasses and exercise books for school. He's supported in attending the additional sessions that the school provides (he moans when he's the only one there early/ late and the others aren't there). He's got lots of beautiful, interesting books pitched at a level that he finds accessible and he does look at books for pleasure.

An intensive approach would make him shut down with stress and be to his detriment. Leaving him solely to muddle on and work it out for himself against the pace of his class would also be to his detriment as he needs more support than most children of his apparent level of intelligence. It's fairly early days, but DS2 needs less support than DS1 in order to to reach his potential.

I want them to be successful, but education is a long game. They need a happy fulfilling childhood as well as literacy/ numeracy skills and a love of learning. I wouldn't attempt to coach them to their limits.