Talk to me about guides/scouts or similar

[Belleende]

DD1 is a v active 3 year old and likes getting mucky outdoors more than anything. I think she would enjoy something like guides/ adventure scouts when the time comes. I don't know anything about what is available in Britain (I am an ex Brigini, the Irish version).

Can I ask what the various groups available might be, and what the difference between them is, for example are they linked to the church or armed forces.

I am aware that waitlists are likely to be long, so I am starting to think about it now.

Rainbows starts at 5 for girls. Waiting lists can be long but once in they usually then proceed straight through as brownies / guides will then have the spaces. Rainbows / brownies - well the ones my daughters have done are quite craft etc. They are linked to church but again in their groups there is real effect of that. Whether there is in others I don't know. Beavers take girls age 6 I think but we didn't do that path. I imagine they are probably far more activity based!

I have to say if she is still quite outdoorsy then beavers/cubs maybe better than rainbows/brownies from my experience

As above, rainbows start at 5, Brownies 7. GG have just rolled out a new, more challenging programme, and the about our craft should reduce (not that my unit did much, I dislike craft)
Beavers start at 6, Cubs 8. Usually very active based, because with a room of mostly small boys, it has to be! They do a fair bit of craft too.
Different structure, similar aims and methods. Each group will be as good as the leaders make it. I'm a Brownie leader, dh a scout leader (was beavers) and I have DC in both movements.

I helped to run a Guides unit some time back.believe me, it's very active! Put her name down for Rainbows or Beavers then go from there.
There is a slight churchy element, but not pushy at all.

Beavers starts at 6, Cubs at 8 and Scouts at 10.5. The activity badges for Cubs include home help, photography, martial arts, water activities and artist. So quite a mix, and age appropriate versions of the badges are done at Beavers and Scouts.
Usually girls tend to do Guiding and boys Scouting still, but my dad started at Rainbows and loved the trial night at Beavers so much she now does Scouting.

It depends very much on the area, the leaders and what the young people want to do. Girls can join all branches of the Scout and Guide movement so go and see what the ones round you have to offer. For example-we have two different Cub packs- one is water based and does loads of outside activities- the other is much more inside and quieter.

Your feelings about the GG stance on gender might influence your decision. My two daughters went to Rainbows where they did very little and brownies where they did not a great deal of outdoor stuff. Since the GG stance on gender they've not moved up to Guides.

Why not forest school, they usually start at 3, can do nursery at forest school and/or after school club. Or Woodcraft- very outdoorsy with an environment element, not churchy. Both are less gender specific in their female/male roles.

Look into the groups in your area. Although Scouts/Cubs/Beavers officially take girls, there are none in our local groups.

There is no military affiliation to either. Both organisations make promises to "serve the Queen and my community" or similar.

3 isn't too early to be getting her name down, round here demand is high and waiting lists are very long.

Guiding is not meant to be churchy, they changed the promise etc to remove any reference to god.
As previously mentioned new programme is being rolled out at the moment

I don't know anything about Scouts, etc.
The nature of Rainbows, Brownies, etc, will depend on the Leader. I'm a Guide Leader and our unit is very active/outdoorsy.
There is quite a bit of controversy around the GG policies around inclusion for transchildren and adults - which you might want to read up on, if it's an issue that concerns you. But, despite my own concerns around this my own DD goes to Guides and loves it.
She's also been to Forest School type groups, although these were more holiday time as they don't run weekly and also the Woodcraft Folk. She liked the WF too, but they demand parents take it in turn to run it and DH didn't want to and I was working.
If you are religious, there's also the Girls Brigade, not quite sure what they do though.

The individual leaders make a huge difference - there are beaver leaders who mostly do craft and rainbow leaders who do loads of outside stuff. They’re all volunteers and develop their own programmes with guidance so their interests will come out! Some will be linked with a church but this varies hugely by regio. There’s nothing to stop putting DDs name down for both and seeing what she enjoys the most.

Scouts in my area take girls and the groups are fairly evenly split.
Our Guide unit is not church affiliated. Some that run from Churches might be.

I’m a Rainbow leader and we do lots of outdoorsy stuff. It does come down to different leaders though because that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
Rainbows is a great way to meet kids in different schools etc. I also have quite a few girls who are in both Rainbows and Beavers so that’s an option too. I think Beavers ends up slightly more expensive but that will vary between groups I’m sure.

I’m a Cub leader, and I agree that the leaders make the group, set the tone for what they do.

Scouting takes boys and girls starts with Beavers, officially at age 5 and three quarters, but many groups wait until 6. Beavers traditionally do a mix of indoor and outdoor stuff, trips out, bit of camping. Meetings are only an hour! Our Bravet group is rural, and has the benefit of a huge field, which they make a lot of use of.

The local Rainbow group meets at the DC’s school on a day they are at after school club. DD was desperate to join Beavers (DS was a Beaver, now a Cub) and I asked her if she wanted to join Rainbows a year earlier. She looked at me with great scorn and said “All they do us glueing and sticking. I do enough of that at school”. Speaking to the parents of DD’s friends who are Rainbows and Brownies, they do seem to go very traditionally girl stuff - still polishing the church floor and making tea for the vicar. I know the GG Association is trying to challenge this, but I am not aware of any groups (local to us anyway) that are going this.

I particularly like our Scout Group because it is not attached to a church, so the religious side is not huge. Faith/Belief is one of the 5 cornerstone of Scouting, but we are not expected to rock up at church every Remembrance Sunday and St George’s Day.

still polishing the church floor and making tea for the vicar I would love to try getting this past our girls! We don’t meet in or near a Church but would be worth the walk! They do enjoy mud, archery, crate stacking and fire lighting (takes at least a year off my life each time). We do do some cooking but I don’t count that as girly as I figure everyone needs to eat. We’ll see how the new programme works out.

There is a difference when it comes to God anyway as I think all the Scout groups can choose to have God in the promise which we can’t.

I help run rainbows locally and we did a camp last October with our rainbows (age 5 and 6) brownies (7-10) guides (11-15) and senior section (16-18). The whole weekend was outdoor skills and games. Archery, fire starting skills, dens, wide games etc. The rainbows were only allowed to stay for 24 hours, some only came for the day and then went home. The brownies stayed 2 nights in a chalet and the older girls slept in tents.

It was a perfect example of how girlguiding is not all colouring and sewing!

Put her name on the waiting list right now, our list is madness with some girls going straight to brownies as our list is so long they were too old to join Rainbows when their space came up!

I am a Guide leader, and DD1 went to Rainbows and now goes to Brownies. Others have already answered your question really and I have limited knowledge of what they do in Scouting. I agree that in both movements there is an element of doing things that they leaders are interested in or have the skills to lead although Guiding is meant to be girl-led. To be honest, in Rainbows DD didn't do a lot of outdoors stuff regularly because there was no outdoor space at the meeting place and it is surrounded by very busy roads. They did go on weekend trips to the local camp site to play in the woods and do activities sometimes. In Guides we have a leadership team who are all terrible at crafts, so we do try to include some each term for the girls who are interested in it but we don't do a lot. We like taking them out to do adventurous activities, but we can't do it too often because we are in the city centre so they are not available near us and they cost money that parents can't always afford to pay too often. I agree that you could put her on the waiting list for both and see which she enjoys most when she is old enough, or do both if you have the time and they money.

Put her name on the waiting list right now, our list is madness with some girls going straight to brownies as our list is so long they were too old to join Rainbows when their space came up!

Absolutely. I have kids on my list who are a few months old, so lots of ones that come along nearer to turning 5 don’t get a look in which is rubbish. There are more Brownie groups than Rainbow groups round here so they can generally get in at 7 but OP if Rainbows or Beavers or both are maybes then I’d just get them on the list. You’re not committing to anything.

I agree Brownies/Guides/Cubs/Scouts really depends on the group in your area and the leader.

My dd did Rainbows, Brownies then Scouts. The reason she switched to Scouts was because our Guiding presence is pretty low in our area and we didn't have an affiliated Guide pack. She did Scouts for a bit but gave it up at 12.

At Brownies they did lots of camps, day trips, concerts and a craft.

My ds did Beavers, Cubs and is still in Scouts ages 11.
Out local Scouting presence is massive - has the official local uniform shop, it's own marching band and troops of young leaders.
My ds has found it a real outlet for his drama talent as they have a 2 yearly 'Gang Show' where he gets to do his beloved comedy.
There are a lot of girls at my ds's Scouts.

I have nothing but positives to say about both organisations in my own experience.

I’m glad to hear it Namechange! To be fair, that Rainbow group meets in a CoE church hall, but still!!

Re waiting lists - currently a 2 yr waiting list for our Beaver colony. Queue jumping opportunities for children whose parents sign up to be leaders.

I think, whichever organisation, both give some really camaraderie, self confidence, opportunities to try out stuff yiu might not otherwise, and just some very good experiences. I’ve seen moments of friendship, courage, bravery, kindness and all sorts of things through Scouting.

She could be on the list for both, and even attend both, they are not mutually exclusive. It will probably be influenced by who her friends are and what she enjoys doing. I would say here that the beavers are somewhat more likely to be out in all weather than Rainbows but that will vary with the pack. There are lots more boys in Beavers than girls, but the girls who go all join in and don't seem to be treated differently. Both older groups go away, often to the same activity centres and do the same activities at those activity centres.

In respect of the Scout promise there are various versions to cover all religions or no religion.

DS's Scout group has very little to do with Church. They do ask us to attend St George's Day parade and Remembrance Day, but you are not forced to. Our St George's Day parade used to be held in a church but is now in a sports hall. The Scout chaplain does attend but is a very small part of the event.

One option not mentioned is Girls' (and Boys') brigades. Always linked to a church (AFAIK) they are a uniformed organisation with much overlap with what Guiding/Scouting do. Members may be expected to attend church occasionally, so this may not suit everyone.

My local groups vary between a fairly quiet crafty GB and a group where both BB and GB do night hikes and more physical activities (more space). There is also a GB/BB marching band and they go on camps together.

Also there will be myriad more local groups whose activities overlap with Guiding/scouting/brigades but are often not uniformed.