Corbyn - deeply selfish?

[nostaples]

I have been a Labour supporter all my life. Have never had faith in Corbyn BUT whatever you think of him and even if you're not a Labour supporter it is in the interest of the country as a whole to have a strong party in opposition. Even if you support Corbyn the fact is that he is not leading his party effectively. The fact is that if people think you're a poor leader you are a poor leader, whatever your strengths. He needs to do the honourable thing and stand down. The fact that he isn't says he is extremely selfish - willing to destroy the party for his own personal reasons - unable to put the party and country first.

Yes, I think he is selfish.

I think he isn't principled.

I can't wait for him to step down.

I can't bear it. There should never have been a better time to oppose the Tories with the NHS in crisis and the Brexit omnishambles and the party is so incredibly useless it's tearing itself apart over an internal conflict about anti-semitism. How can he live with himself? He has no leadership qualities whatsoever and no authority.

I think we may as well not have an opposition right now, which is absolutely criminal based on the cluster fuck happening in Downing Street right now. Ffs.

He is incredibly selfish. He proved that when he lost the no confidence vote but stayed because he said the people were on his side.

He won't step down he will have to be ousted.

The question that should be asked is
why if he is so bad for the party is no-one else stepping forward?

The saner elements of the party have lost confidence. Everyone was taken aback by the levels of support he mustered from young people and hard left and they became frightened of losing this support. They have lost sight of who they're trying to appeal to. The appeal of someone like Chukka is so incredibly different from Corbyn's where to even start?

Corbyn is a disease.

Ugh

How dare we "young" people vote for someone who's views we agree with. And how dare "hard" lefts have political representation.

Those 500,000 and odd that joined during and after that leadership election and have remained members should listen to their more experienced betters and vote for the same old neo liberal crap that got us into this message.

The majority of the PLP ( who had a vote of no confidence) don't represent the views of the majority of labour party members; they're the ones that need replacing.

Personally I think that the anti-Semitism stuff is making the right wing look bad.

If you saner people are actually bothered turn up to your AGMs, stand for positions and do something about it.

If you have and you lost the vote then clearly you don't represent people in the way you claim to

Nothing wrong with appealing to young and hard left but you've got to have a wider appeal than that to get elected. And that's where Corbyn is so selfish - he doesn't seem to have any intention or desire to get elected. And you have to have a unified PLP with direction as that is how our democracy works. You can't say MPs don't represent the views of ordinary voters when that is exactly what they do by definition.

Like herpes. You can never get rid of it.

I absolutely despair of all those in power. They don’t have a bloody clue and we’re sleepwalking into chaos.

the fact is that he is not leading his party effectively. The fact is that if people think you're a poor leader you are a poor leader, whatever your strengths.

You're confusing fact and opinion. In your opinion, he is not leading the party effectively. In my opinion, he is. Party membership is at an all time high, people of all ages are continuing to sign up (including those over 70), he must be doing something right.

I don't agree with everything he does, but I do support his leadership. The Labour Party is in a period of transition, which will mean losing some MPs as the Blairites show their true colours and find their true home with the Tories. It's all going in the right direction though, returning to a true socialist movement.

'In your opinion, he is not leading the party effectively. In my opinion, he is'

Goodness, you must have pretty low standards if you think that is effective leadership: no unity, no vision, no chance of being elected. MPs including senior MPs with a lifetime's service to the party and country, shadow cabinet members resigning, claims of anti-semitism taking up the entire agenda such that there is no sign of any opposition at all to the Tories, no clear stance on Brexit or any recognizable policy on anything much at all really.

I'd hate to see bad leadership if that is what you call effective.

@nostaples, you're misjudging the mood of (some of) the people. I know three over 70's that have joined the Party in the last month. The new members that have started attending branch meetings are all 50+. But you're never going to read about that in the MSM because they're not going to report anything positive about Labour are they.

' losing some MPs as the Blairites show their true colours and find their true home with the Tories.'

What like Frank Field?

You think Frank Field resigned the whip and is thinking of a by election because his true home is with the Tories.

Do you think Chukka would have a wider appeal ? I'm not so sure. He says whatever he thinks will make him popular, said we should sacrifice the single market now wants to stay in. Called people not in the same elite set as him 'trash' and gave up on a leadership bid as soon as the press got too close.

You need to stop falling for the MSM hype. If you're talking about Frank Field, he resigned the whip because his CLP had an overwhelming vote of no confidence against him, it was sod all to do with AS.

I can't wait for mandatory reselection to be brought in to get rid of people exactly like him.

But members are being lost at the same time as being gained. You've got the entire Jewish community turning against Labour. And I return to one of my earlier points, without clear leadership and at least a hope of being elected, having people join the party isn't much use in terms of providing opposition to the Tories and a vision for the country.

The point is people on the left might love Corbyn. Young people might vote for Corbyn. Corbyn might result in larger majorities in constituencies already held by Labour. BUT and it's a big but people in marginal constituencies won't vote for him. People in Basingstoke won't vote for him.

Labour will not get a working majority in the House of Commons with Corbyn as leader, so he can be Mr Right from Right Town but if he is not elected it won't matter.

I think Chukka would have a much wider appeal. I think it's a huge loss that Yvette Cooper or Harriet Harman didn't stand. Fact is they didn't want it but they could have done it at least as caretakers before somebody visionary could take over.

Frank Field was a friend of Thatchers. You didn't know that? And who did he vote with on Brexit?

It's great to have strong opinions, but they need to be based on the full facts. At this time yours appear to be based on whatever the media want to feed you.

Exactly @Moussemouse and the bottom line is that if you don't care about electability then you have a duty to stand down. By all means promote your cause from within or without the party but it is wrong to 'lead' it if you are not self-consciously not attempting to lead it into government.

You are stating that the entire Jewish community has turned against Corbyn as a fact which is not true.

I've got a lot of time for Stella Creasy. Why the bloody hell can't the party get a woman leader when the Tories have had two female PMs.

OK, Violetparis but you've got to admit there's a lot of opposition from the Jewish community.

Who is this visionary that could take over ?