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Original poster

Is this normal for school now? Am I being PFB?

40 replies

MilkyWaysandTea · 01/09/2018 12:22

My DS started school (Scotland, P1), two weeks ago. It is all completely different from what I expected and I just don't know what to make of it.

The classroom is almost like a play room, except the teacher has one table of six. The children who aren't at the teacher's table have playtime, but during that they are supposed to complete 'challenges' that are laid out in the classroom and collect lolly pop sticks.

DS keeps getting into trouble Blush He was on 'the rocket' (this is bad, he should have been on the star) for being too noisy during playtime and not completing his challenges. This meant he got no Golden Time at all and was sent to the HT's office for a 'chat' Shock

At the beginning of this week I was really cross with him but the more I've thought about it, it just seems really unfair to expect a four year old to bypass the Lego and organise his own learning?

I had a meeting with the teacher yesterday and came away even more confused as she spoke a lot about play-based but, after all, punished him for playing.

I don't know what to say to him.

OP posts:
LusaCole · 01/09/2018 12:26

Play based learning (or child initiated learning or learning through play) is normal for this age, yes. I'm a bit confused exactly why your DS was in trouble though. What do you mean by 'organise his own learning'? What was he doing?

Original poster
MilkyWaysandTea · 01/09/2018 12:30

When he isn't at the teacher's table, they're supposed to play but complete these 'challenges' (I think there are a few numbers ones and some sounds ones) during their 'play-time'.

He was playing with the Lego, basically. There seems to only be room for one or two children at each 'challenge'.

OP posts:
IAmLurkacus · 01/09/2018 12:31

Sounds normal.

What was his challenge?

How long will he be on the rocket for? Can he earn his way back to the star?

Are there lots on the rocket or is he the only one?

Interested in this thread?

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4 year olds General education
Original poster
MilkyWaysandTea · 01/09/2018 12:36

One of them was to put 1 counter under a number 1, 2 counters under a number 2, up to 5. This would have taken him all of two seconds so I don't know whether to be annoyed with him for not doing it or a bit perplexed about why it is so essential that he does it.

OP posts:
hmmwhatatodo · 01/09/2018 12:36

Is it to do with the noise and perhaps messing around /distracting others with it? You’d be surprised at what children can get up to!

GreenTulips · 01/09/2018 12:40

Hi I've worked at a school who do this

So there are say 5 challenges - these are linked to the curriculum

5 lolly sticks of different colours

  1. writing challenge to form letters or numbers
  2. cutting out task
  3. painting take self portrait Etc etc

Kids are sent off to do the challenges them place the lolly stick in their box to show completion

In my opinion this is a very lazy way of doing these tasks and the kids should be allocated tasks

'Apples you're doing the 'build the bridge challenge'
'Pears your cutting out the fruit shapes'

Etc

Rather than expect them to remember which challenges they have or haven't done and like you say bypass the lego

3WildOnes · 01/09/2018 12:44

So the ticket and the star will be their behaviour management tool. I is shine there is the rocket at the bottom the star at the top and a few things in between. Presumably they start in the middle and move up to the star for good behaviour and down for bad.
It is pretty standard for children to move around to different activities in reception and they wouldn’t be expected to do this without direction. I would guess that he was moved down for not following instructions to move on to a new activity and for being too noisy after repeated warnings.

3WildOnes · 01/09/2018 12:48

Sorry so many typos! In my experience this structured play is directed and supported by teachers and assistants but greentulips has experience of the children having to manage moving on to the new tasks/activities themselves. If this is the case I imagine this would be a struggle for many of the children?!

PerfectPenquins · 01/09/2018 12:50

This sounds very lazy teaching to me, are there any other staff in the room assisting? I would ask how the activities are supervised, how do they know which child struggles or excels?

confusedandconfuddled · 01/09/2018 12:56

So he was punished SOLELY for not completing this task, and sent to the HT because of it?!

MrsChollySawcutt · 01/09/2018 13:00

Sounds awful, glad my DC have finished primary if that's the new way of 'teaching'.

How on earth are the kids supposed to have the self-discipline to navigate around the different challenges and award themselves lolly sticks. How do they know if they have done the challenge correctly? What's to stop them not doing the challenges and taking the lolly sticks anyway?

Sitting quietly with the Lego sounds like a good option.

Original poster
MilkyWaysandTea · 01/09/2018 13:01

Apples you're doing the 'build the bridge challenge'
'Pears your cutting out the fruit shapes

Yes, this was what I expected too, but it doesn't seem to be happening! There is the teacher, and one support worker, but there is a child with some additional needs so I think she works mainly with them.

I am not blinkered and he can be a bit over-excitable but he is generally very good and he does follow instructions. He's just a normal four year old.

He was punished for

  • not completing his challenges
  • being noisy during play time (I understand this and have spoken to him about it)
  • ending up on the rocket.

I think he is back on 'the moon' on Monday for a fresh start.

OP posts:
toothtruth · 01/09/2018 13:10

They do this at my 3yo pre school! But thankfully one of the tasks always involves lego anyway.... Hes only starting in a few days and I hope he doesnt get punished for not doing all the tasks as he wont really understand what is going on? When I went for the open day they explained about the task tables but they didnt indicate there would be a punishment for not completing them?
I think its a bit much to expect a 3yo to remember what he is supposed to be doing later on and then find it and do it. He is good at following simple instructions but he would never remember a piece of work long term.... I hope they do remind them and encourage them to do one or the other....

BewareOfDragons · 01/09/2018 13:20

I spend a fair amount of time in Reception (TA).

What you're describing is lazy teaching.

We are play-based, and we put out activities they can choose to do, or they can play with other things. They're not punished for what they choose to play with as long as they're being respectful of the toys, etc

While all that is going on, children are called over to grown ups to do some one on one or small group work for short amounts of time to match their attention spans. They're 4!!

Mindchilder · 01/09/2018 13:20

So he was told to go and do a challenge before playing but was shouting and messing about instead?
That's what he was punished for - even at 4 once they are at school they are expected to follow both direct instructions and general class rules (no shouting/running around inside).

Your expectations of the teacher are very high - she has a class of 20 or 30 4 and 5 year olds, sometimes they will need to follow her instructions without her standing over them.

IceRebel · 01/09/2018 13:29

Definitely sounds like lazy teaching. Actually thinking about it it's not even lazy teaching as there doesn't seem to be much teaching going on, besides the small group with the teacher, so it's just lazy.

I work with primary age children and given the chance even yr 6 would play rather than doing a challenge, especially if the children aren't actually being told to do challenges. As it sounds like they're just left out in the classroom, and the children are supposed to independently go from task to task before playing with the other toys / activities in the room.

Original poster
MilkyWaysandTea · 01/09/2018 13:29

So he was told to go and do a challenge before playing but was shouting and messing about instead?

Well, no, he wasn't told that. He was told to go and play and that at some point during his playtime he should go to the sound table and the number table. I did think like you did at first and I was cross, but the more I think about it, I don't think it's fair to give that responsibility to a four year old... (and certainly not a 3 year old at nursery Shock).

OP posts:
Silvercatowner · 01/09/2018 13:29

Poor little boy. He's 4, been in school two weeks and already in trouble? I'd be thinking about looking for a new school. When I was teaching reception I kept it very unstructured for the first term or so. Play was just that, following the child's' agenda, not mine.

AjasLipstick · 01/09/2018 13:31

Make an appointment with his teacher. Tell her that DS needs more support to remember which challenge he's on.

It sounds bloody ridiculous!

AjasLipstick · 01/09/2018 13:37

He was told to go and play and that at some point during his playtime he should go to the sound table and the number table.

This sort of self-management would be tricky for many older children.

To expect a child of 3 or 4 to think "Well, I've been playing lego for about ten minutes now...probably time to do some actual work!" is astoundingly naive or....stupid!

Kokeshi123 · 01/09/2018 13:41

My opinion is that in the UK (and I think that Scotland and Wales sound particularly confused on this issue, more so than England) we really need to make up our mind about whether we want the youngest kids (under 6) to do academic learning or not.

Like, either we need to decide "No academic learning until age 6, like in some other countries" OR we need to decide that "Academic learning for 4-6yos is appropriate and is what they are supposed to be doing, and therefore we will have a structured approach where children have a clearly directed routine in which they are explicitly taught stuff."

Because at the moment, it seems like the approach in the UK is that we expect children to be able to read and do addition and subtraction etc. before the age of 6 BUT are so fundamentally ill at ease with this vision that we end up trying to get children to learn these academic skills in a kind of "child-directed" way--expecting small children to be self-motivated enough to choose to do academic activities, and then writing the younger, less mature and more deprived children off as "less able" when they aren't able to do so successfully.

Witchend · 01/09/2018 15:07

Kids are sent off to do the challenges them place the lolly stick in their box to show completion
I think my ds would have discovered fairly quickly that the thing to do would be to go and put the lolly sticks in the box and then get on with playing. He'd be subtle enough (even at 4yo) to have done it carefully over the time as well.
Dd1 would not have dreamt of putting a stick in the box until she had completed each task to perfection and probably several times. If she felt it wasn't good enough she wouldn't have moved on.

I see flaws in their plans.

PorkFlute · 01/09/2018 16:23

He probably just forgot! I frequently go into the kitchen to make a cup of tea and get caught up in something else or go to shop for something and come out with many other things but not what I went in for - and I’m considerably older!
I think if they’re going to go with their bizarre method of teaching then the teacher and support staff need to keep an eye on who hasn’t completed the challenges and give them a reminder.
And sending a child of that age to the head seems ridiculous.
Are there any other schools near you op?

missyB1 · 01/09/2018 16:32

What a weird way of teaching (or not actually teaching)!
I would have some concerns about this school.

Original poster
MilkyWaysandTea · 04/09/2018 21:23

I need some advice MNetters. DS has already lost all of his Golden Time and came out of school inconsolable today.

(according to him he couldn't do his challenges because there were always children already at them).

I can quite believe that he's being loud etc because he is so wound up coming out of school- but he is getting no adult interaction.

I need to phone back school tomorrow and request a meeting.

OP posts: