Degree classification - Is a 2.1 the new 2.2?

[Plutonium]

Please help settle this argument between DH and I.
All our friends kids who graduated in the last 5yrs or so have all got either a 2.1 or a first class. When I went to uni, most people got a 2.2, a fe odd got a 2.1. A first class was as rare as hens teeth. I was telling DH that there was more academics stress now for Dd because everything’s has revved up several notches and she’ll have to be aiming for 2.1 unlike our time. DH said it’s all nonsense that most people get a 2.2 and a 2.1 is very rare. DH isn’t the most up to scratch with academic expectations /pressures in schools etc and just thinks everything is the same as when we went to school/university. I told him most graduate schemes now expect a 2.1.

I’ll be delighted if he is right. But what do you think?

I graduated a couple of years ago and I think the amount of people getting 2.2 and 2.1 where pretty similar with a few firsts. I think it’s pretty dependent on the university though we had a lot of exams which is where most people fell down to a 2.2. Friends at other mainly coursework based unis seemed to have a much higher percentage of 2.1

I went to uni twenty years ago, and most people who grafted got a 2:1. People who got a 2:2 were considered to have coasted a bit. Firsts weren’t ridiculously rare, but they weren’t common, maybe a couple per year per course.

My Dad (retired academic) fumes over this every year.

He feels that if you get a first you should be of a calibre where you're going to make a difference in you field and believes that's how it used to be. Ie. Very few people got a first.

It's obviously not the case now. I know dozens of people with firsts. They are obviously bright and worked very well but they can't be considered exceptional just because there are so many of them.

I got a 2.2 8 years ago and was devastated.
Degrees are so popular now that you need to get a 2.1.

Yeah. I got an 85% first.
Not comparable to the rounded up 69.5% others got
Takes the piss.

I don't think that most people get 2:1 but you need at least a 2:1if you wasn't to get a proper job because the competion post 2008 is fierce.

I did the milk round in 1993. Certainly then, the desirable blue chip employers expected a standard 2.1 minimum for graduate management schemes (and from a top 10 university too).

What year are you comparing with?

I went to university in the early 90s, I’m sure the requirement for graduate trainee schemes was a 2.2in a relevant subject. Most people got a 2.2 so if they stipulated a 2.1 I think they would have struggled with applications

20 years ago no one wanted a Desmond. And it didn’t get you into lots of jobs.

Ooh! Badder, I might be wrong then. Graduated in 1993.

When I was at university in the 80s, very few people got a First. In fact the only person I knew who had one went to a poly and got in with two grade Es. I think about 1/3 or maybe 1/4 got a 2:1 and most of the others got a 2:2. There was the odd 3rd - I can't imagine anyone getting that now unless they'd really taken the piss.

My daughter said that an MA is what differentiates now, rather than a degree. I think that's probably true, given how many people have a degree.

I agree with you OP. Mind you, I got "a drinkers degree". Ie a 2.2

You don't necessarily need a 2:1. It all depends what you want to do and how competitive the field is. For degrees where the entry requirements are high to start with, a lot of employers recognise this. I did law and by the end of my degree didn't want to work in law - my actual degree classification has mattered not a jot outside law.

Incidentally, there were others on my course who had parents in practice with thirds, etc so it shows that to some extent the requirement to have a 2:1 is inflated by competition rather than it being a true requirement to practice. I recognise this is cold comfort to someone who really wants to work in a discipline or field but doesn't get the result they need in order to do so.

As an academic I think you're both wrong! He's wrong - 2.1s are much more common and it is much more problematic (though far from the end of the world) to get a 2.2. However this doesn't push up the pressure to the extent you're imagining, as it's much much easier to get a 2.1 than it was when they were less common. I see very few students who get 2.2s overall (different to getting them in individual modules, which is much more common) who haven't either slacked off considerably or - and this is always really sad to see - had considerable personal difficulties that the special circumstances procedure hasn't been able to adequately deal with. I do think students are under much more pressure even than when I was an undergraduate 15 years ago - but that's due to the pressure to find work afterwards and what seems to be a generally (and very distressing) higher level of serious mental health difficulties. It's not the classification system.

I think it is also subject specific to a degree. My understanding (not my field) is that 2.2s are still more common in some STEM fields and that employers in those fields know this.

I went to a Russel Group university in the mid nineties and all decent graduate recruiters wanted a 2:1. Everyone was aiming for at least that. A 2:2 was seen as a disappointment, sure people got them but I don’t know anyone who would have been happy with it. It was definitely seen as the ‘pissed it up the wall’ degree of those who didn’t really work...

I felt absolutely gutted when I got my 2:1 (18 years ago). But only because my best friend and my boyfriend got 2 of the three 1sts in our year.

1sts were not common.

There was an article in the Telegraph in June, since 1995 the percentage gaining a 2:1 or a first has risen from 47% to over 75%. The largest gains has been in 1st class honours which has risen from 7% to over 26%. Universities have been warned over grade inflation but there doesn’t seem to be a plan to fix. So today someone getting 2:2 is rarer than someone getting a higher grade.

The vast majority got a 2:2 on my physics course in 1987. You could still get on to a graduate trainee scheme for a blue chip company, as indeed I did with my Desmond. A third would have been disappointing, I was perfectly content with my 2:2.

Looking at the stats above, so a 2:2 is now in the bottom quarter! It certainly wasn't in 1987!

My son is just starting his third year of his Finance and Mathematics (and something else!) degree in London. He is aiming for a first - because" whats the point in aiming for anything less than a top mark" - and was very disappointed to only get 74% (2.1) for both his first two years. I think he said he needed 75%. Does this sound right?

I did my degree in 2000 and studied at level HE6 the whole way through.
My younger sister has now started a degree year one is HE4 level, year two is HE5 level and year three is HE6 level.
I don’t know if that’s specific to her course (Law) but I know I had to go straight into level 6 and it took me my first few assignments / exams to get into the style of things so my first few assignments were a lot lower marks which then lowered my overall score for everything.

Dsis seems to have had a gentler build into it so her work was graded on a lower grading system initially.
Although that may be course specific.

Also I think more people have access to so many resources that weren’t available 15 years ago.
I did assignments by sitting in the library on evenings and weekend reading text books, and journals to do my work and waiting for other text books to come back in that had been loaned out.

If you weren’t first to the library when the assignment came out at my uni you knew your work wouldn’t be as good as the others as all the books would be gone until the assignment date.

These days there’s ebooks, the internet, online journals etc which again helps with revision and assignments so maybe the courses aren’t ‘easier’ maybe there are just better resources available to students.

I graduated in 1987 and on my course there was a mix of grades from first to a pass degree. A similar course had a straight split of 2:1 and 2:2. Everyone that I knew that did one particular arts course got firsts! So it was very much dependent on your department.

I suspect grades are higher now because the students are consumers nowadays.