Degree classification - Is a 2.1 the new 2.2?

[Plutonium]

Please help settle this argument between DH and I.
All our friends kids who graduated in the last 5yrs or so have all got either a 2.1 or a first class. When I went to uni, most people got a 2.2, a fe odd got a 2.1. A first class was as rare as hens teeth. I was telling DH that there was more academics stress now for Dd because everything’s has revved up several notches and she’ll have to be aiming for 2.1 unlike our time. DH said it’s all nonsense that most people get a 2.2 and a 2.1 is very rare. DH isn’t the most up to scratch with academic expectations /pressures in schools etc and just thinks everything is the same as when we went to school/university. I told him most graduate schemes now expect a 2.1.

I’ll be delighted if he is right. But what do you think?

I graduated with a First in 1991. I was one of five people who had managed a First in 15 years in our particular subject area. I was a university teacher, and I can (unfortunately) say quite categorically that a First is now an old 2.1, and a 2.1 is an old 2.2. There is no way to distinguish First Class calibre, so Heaven help potential employers. The degradation of degrees is one reason I resigned.

@onetimeposter I got a first.... rounded up 69.5%! Sozzels!

People who got Pass degree, what was the reason and where the allow to resit?

Sorry, missed the last bit. We do not allow resits at Honours. The grade you get decides your classification and if you fail that year, you exit with a pass.

Think there were 2 firsts on my degree the year I graduated... I missed being the third by 2 pissing marks (should have spent a bit less time in the bar)! I wouldn't really have deserved it though - I'm just very good at exams with a photographic memory.

i graduated in 2016 with a 1st, one of 5 on my course. the vast majority seemed to get a 2.1. from what i could gather the only people who got a 2.2 were the major slackers who barely attended any lectures and used to brag that they’d done their essays the day they were due. many of my friends also have degrees and i can’t think of any that have less than a 2.1.

How long ago are you talking? I haven’t seen a graduate scheme that didn’t require a 2.1 or above in the last 15+ years.

I’ve always thought that a 2.2 or below doesn’t really help you with anything.

I graduated this summer with a vocational degree from one of the best universities for it in the world. I got a 2:1 but so many people in my year seemed to get (well deserved) firsts I’ve noticed amongst other friends graduating that firsts have become a lot more common these days but this is just my anecdotal evidence.

I got a Desmond in the mid 90s (2-2) and was really upset (got 58.5%, I might as well have gone to the pub and got 51%!). Only one person on my course got a first, most others were mixed 2.1/2.2.

My father is one of the most intelligent people I know, he graduated in the late 50s when only 1% of the population went to university and he got a third. It was a good degree in those days, he went on to help set up the computer dept at Manchester uni and research with PhD students. Times have changed!

Graduated in 2010. I would have felt like I'd wasted my time and money with a 2:2. But for context I left with £27k debt . I might have felt differently if I'd had the grants and job market available to those in the 90's.

BBC says they are getting more common @Jimjamjooney

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40654933

There’s also the fact that academics are now encouraged to use the full marking scale by external examiners. Where previously the highest mark an exceptional piece of undergraduate work would have received might have been, say, 75 (for breathtakingly original, publishable work), now we are rightly pushed to give work of that calibre 85-90. And so on down the scale - a “solid” first-class piece of work should now get 73/74, instead of 70/71.

Absolutely, this. One of our externs a couple of years back looking around the pre-board and said 'What do we think is going to happen if we award a grade higher than a 75? A rip in the space-time continuum?' I've previously been a humanities academic in another country, but in the years I've been in HE in the UK, that message about using a broader range of higher-end marks has been consistent from a number of externs.

I'm due a 2.2 once my final work has been submitted (whether I just pass it or get 100%, it doesn't affect the grade). I already have my place on my masters course, but then I have health problems that have sporadically affected my study so I wonder if that has been taken into account?

I graduated in 1999 with a 2:1 , 2:2 even split over our year.

"The figures from HESA go back only as far as 1994 - when 7% of students received a first, but they show the proportion of firsts has more than trebled in the past two decades, up to 24% last year."

I'm an academic (RG university) and used to be exam board chair of my department. I would say that at least 95% of our students graduate with a 2.1 or above. This is not because students are smarter or harder working than they used to be.

When I went to university in the 1970s, around one in three students who passed their degree got a first or a 2.1. Most got a 2.2. As of 2016/17 the proportion getting a first or 2.1 had gone up to 75% with 2.1 by far the most common grade - 49% of students who pass get a 2.1.

I finished my degree 27 years ago but the majority of students got 2:2; maybe 15% got a 2:1 and maybe two people got a first. We also had a few people fail.

I do think the change in that is probably to do with number of students at university now and, as with GCSEs and A levels, a change in the grade boundaries allowing more people to get a higher degree.

And you could only go on to do a masters if you had a 2:1 or higher.

I graduated in 1993 with a 2:2. I could have worked harder but still would have been top of 2:2 rather than middling. They used to call it a drinker's degree. I was quite happy with it at the time. I'm not in the professional market so it doesn't really impact on anything. It was a long time ago and university rarely comes up in conversation unless I'm talking about my kids.

How old are the friends you're referencing? Mature students tend to be more enthusiastic and put in more work.

I last finished uni 12 years ago and got a 2.1, only 2 students got a first and the ones I knew that got 2.2's were not the most committed students. This was at an old uni not RG, but rated quite well in the rankings then and has improved since too.

I also think with the student loan/debt issue even younger students take their degrees more seriously than many of those who went to uni in the 80's/90's (only really good thing about that!) I'm of the generation that left school mid 80's and my friends that went to uni then didn't often take it as seriously as they could have. Especially if they were at uni because they didn't really know what they wanted to do.

Also agree with thatcoolpirate that arguably research is easier now (although conversely you could say there's TOO much info to wade through to get to the legit research). I first went to uni early 90's and had no internet, no computer even! There were 6 computers in the learning centre for 200 students! Most research was hard copy, inc microfiche (there's a lost art 😂) and my assignments were written on a typewriter. I think people forget how quickly things have changed SO much. I scraped a 2.2 level, but I think partly because it was a BSc and that's not my forte.

When I went the 2nd time I had a computer AND printer at home, ample computers and printers/copiers in the learning centre (in comparison - still not enough to go round), Internet access (albeit dial up at home), the uni was signed up to various databases for access to journal articles and theses... HUGE difference. But also I was different. I was doing a degree I genuinely enjoyed (BA this time) and found relatively easy, was older/more mature, more disciplined and committed.

Even when I was at uni 16 years ago people
Didn’t really fail. They would’ve been filtered out well before they got to that stage. You can’t ask someone to keep
Paying fees when they have little prospect of getting a degree out of it (and in those days fees weren’t very much)

I graduated in 1981 and nearly everyone got 2 :1

glintandglide - true. Both times there were a LOT of people had dropped out by Christmas in the first year. Probably at least a 1/3 of the intake.

I got a 2:1 with my degree from a distance learning university. If I'd got the same marks at a brick university I'd have got a first. Given that I was working full time with three children I was happy enough with a 2:1 but I'd rather have had a first of course.

What is a Desmond?

Desmond tutu - 2.2 rhyming slang sort of.