Moving to Ireland - lots of questions

[ThatchersCold]

I’ve massively got the fear about what is going to happen in the near future with Brexit in the U.K.

I have Irish heritage (grandparents) and so am going to apply for an Irish passport. My DM has had an Irish passport for about 20 years and she is putting her house on the market and is thinking about moving to Ireland. I am strongly considering moving there too, but am trying to work out if it would be feasible.

I don’t think my dc would be entitled to Irish passports as my DM was not born there, is that right? If so, what kind of rights would they have to live in Ireland, particularly when they become adults?

My eldest dd is disabled which impacts how much I can work, so I would need to claim benefits. I am self employed but don’t earn that much, so currently receive working tax credits, child tax credits, carers allowance, child benefit, housing benefit and my daughter gets DLA. I’ve no idea what my/her entitlement to welfare would be in Ireland. Because of my daughter’s disability I need to be sure I’d be able to make ends meet.

also any other information about the cost of living, healthcare, employment, schools etc would be useful. My DM is planning to move to somewhere around Wexford so would probably be that area. My dc are 8 and 14. I don’t know if this a bonkers idea or whether I could actually do it. Would be a scary thing to do as I actually really like my life here but I’m so worried about what the future holds here, particularly for the dc.

" Ireland is a very modern 21st century country with way more opportunities and a much better way of life than the UK."

that I could agree with.

And as for why I want to move to Ireland, it’s the obvious choice as I’m half Irish. The county council where I live now is on the verge of going bankrupt, and that’s before Brexit and whatever hell that brings with it. I am worried for my DC’s future

I appreciate you're worried for the DC's future, but the fact that you have Irish grandparents doesn't make you 'half-Irish' I think you said that your mother didn't grow up in Ireland? to the extent that it's an 'obvious' choice of a place to emigrate to.

And I think that moving to a country you clearly don't know at all (have you ever even visited? It's not clear from your OP) as an economic migrant who will be heavily dependent on benefits, purely because you are entitled to an Irish passport, is a bit mad. Really, do your research on benefits, education, housing, medical costs, and go and spend some time in Wexford.

I appreciate you're worried for the DC's future, but the fact that you have Irish grandparents doesn't make you 'half-Irish'

It does. If both her grandparents were irish, her mother is Irish (both legally and clearly she feels so), so there is nothing else you can call OP except half Irish.

I'm Irish but emigrated to the UK in my twenties . There's definite benefits to both countries and Irish and British citizens are lucky that it's relatively easy to move between them. I think Ireland is more scenic with a quiet, relaxed way of life but find the services out of the capital a bit lacking but it depends on your situation.
When your DM moves over could you gradually start to spend more time on Wexford and build up a support network? That way you could all slowly get used to the slight differences in Irish life before making the final move.
As far as I'm aware your DC should be able to get Irish passports when you get one.You can do all of that via the Irish embassy in London,it's very straightforward if you have an Irish parent.

“No Brexit nonsense here, no austerity any more, no Tories. So much the better place to live.”

For the moment anyway. We’ll see what way Brexit pans out- it’s at best naive to think that Brexit isn’t going to impact Ireland, especially with the border issue looming.

I would look very carefully at your potential entitlements OP- it’s all well and good for posters here to say how good they have it in Ireland, but for every one of them I know two or three families hanging by their fingertips trying to pay rent or having to live with parents etc. We moved back to NI when I was pregnant despite us both having well paying jobs because the cost of living was so high, and it was the best decision we could have made.

Its fine if you have a great paying job with transferable skills, but for a self employed single Mum with a disabled child it won’t be that straightforward.

As far as I'm aware your DC should be able to get Irish passports when you get one.You can do all of that via the Irish embassy in London,it's very straightforward if you have an Irish parent.

Her children will not be entitled to Irish passports as they have Irish born great grandparents rather than grandparents and their parent (the OP) was not an Irish citizen at the time of their birth. They would be able to apply for naturalisation in due course if they remained in Ireland.

As far as I'm aware your DC should be able to get Irish passports when you get one.You can do all of that via the Irish embassy in London,it's very straightforward if you have an Irish parent

Not necessarily, and on OP's description, probably not. If OP's mother got her Irish passport before OP was born, then her children will be entitled. If she got it after, they will not be eligable.

It does. If both her grandparents were irish, her mother is Irish (both legally and clearly she feels so), so there is nothing else you can call OP except half Irish.

No. The OP clearly isn't speaking in the legal or technical sense -- yes, of course she's half-Irish by descent, and entitled to a passport. That's not up for dispute. But not only has she never lived in Ireland, but neither, it seems, has her mother, so she has no knowledge of the place, and no sense of what it would be like to live there. It's simply a nearby English-speaking country to which she is entitled to emigrate as an economic migrant, and she needs to approach it that hard-headedly.

I sympathise, as I sympathise with anyone worried about Brexit's effect on their children, but when I taught at an Irish university for ten years, I dealt every year with confused and upset Irish-Americans showed up saying 'I'm Irish!' and expecting to feel an immediate sense of belonging and welcome because their granny had been born in Oughterard before emigrating to Arkansas as an infant, and being confused when it didn't happen.

I don't think the OP is that naive or that young! but I do think she should approach the possible move just as if she were moving to Germany or the US.

I'm Irish and live in England, and the longer I live here

Sorry, hit post too soon. I was starting to say that the longer I live in rural England (rather than London and Oxford) the more different I realise Ireland and England are as societies. I don't think it is just small things.

Please don’t make any decisions based on inaccurate information in this thread - every person, including Irish born in people, must satisfy an Habitually Resident Condition to qualify for certain social welfare payments, namely means tested social assistance payments. Contribution based benefit schemes are different.

You cannot just arrive in the country and start claiming social welfare. Please research it further on www.welfare.ie or on the Citizens Information Services website.

Sorry you guys were right, I thought OP's children would be automatically entitled to Irish citizen via her being entitled. It's not the case.

No

Erm excuse me? OP describes herself as half Irish. Legally, genealogically and emotionally, she is entirely correct. Who the fuck are you to tell her "no you aren't". She IS whether you like it or not.

Please don’t make any decisions based on inaccurate information in this thread - every person, including Irish born in people, must satisfy an Habitually Resident Condition to qualify for certain social welfare payments, namely means tested social assistance payments. Contribution based benefit schemes are different.You cannot just arrive in the country and start claiming social welfare. Please research it further on www.welfare.ie or on the Citizens Information Services website

I agree, please ignore ignorant posters like this one, who if they had bothered to read the sites they suggest OP does , would know that the UK is treated the same way as Ireland for the habitual residence test, being in the common travel area. If you have been habitually resident in EITHER IRELAND OR THE UK FOR 2 YEARS YOU ARE HABITUALLY RESIDENT AND YOU CAN CLAIM ANY AND ALL BENEFITS IN EITHER COUNTRY AT ANY TIME.

Fucking hell.

Blimey! Thanks for the (mixed responses). Ok to set a few things straight...

Yes I am half Irish. My mother is 100% irish.

No I haven’t spent any time in Ireland since I was very small, and at the moment this is just an idea, so thought I’d post on here to get some opinions. Of course before I took it any further I would take the dc to visit Ireland a few times before we made the huge move.

If Brexit does cause the hell that some people are predicting, then it would be prudent to move to another country. I am fortunate that I will be able to do so because of my heritage. Of course I could equally get an Irish passport and then move to any other EU country, but as we don’t speak any other languages, Ireland would be the easiest move.

Also if my mum moves there, she is basically my support network. It would be a challenge to move to a non English speaking country on my own with 2 kids including one who is disabled.

Some posters seem to think I am concentrating solely on what I can tap ‘the social up for’ - I’m really not. I graduated last year with first class honours and am looking to increase my employment, but that’s tricky because my disabled daughter is no longer able to attend school, so I am home educating. Whether I like it or not, that’s the situation I’m stuck with, and I need to make sure we will be able to survive, as unfortunately for the forseeable I am going to need money from welfare. That would be the case at the moment wherever we live.

Oh and yes my DM has spent a lot of time in Ireland over the last few years, the idea of moving there has been going on long before any notions of Brexit, so she’s been on many house hunting and generally scoping things out trips.

Hi, I'm Irish, living in Ireland. Thought I might contribute as I have a son with a disability.

You should definitely do a lot of research as disabilities services are very underfunded. My son has ASD & is non-verbal. He receives some SALT intervention annually in the form of instruction to his teacher but absolutely no 1/1 therapy. Same is true for OT. Any therapies my son gets we pay for privately. The current services are under-staffed and are barely keeping up with diagnosis & cognitive assessments necessary for schools. Very little intervention other than that. Respite services are very sparse in most areas, but quality is good in my experience. Adult services- Respite or Residential are even worse.

Our hospitals are creaking at the seams. My father is very ill - a couple of really serious chronic conditions. His last hospital admission was Nov. He was in a hospital A&E department on a little trolley for FOUR DAYS before he got a bed on a ward. He is 6'2" and couldn't lie flat. Actual care was fine, but getting into a bed is a big problem.

My son has had a number of day surgical procedures recently & we have had overall good experiences. We were in the major pediatric hospital, and while the building was shabby, the care was great. If you get into a clinic service for any chronic conditions, the care can be good too. We really seem to struggle with acute health care. As another poster mentioned, access to GP seems better here. I can usually get into the doctor within 24 hrs, less if I'm not picky which doctor I need in our local practice.

My son travels by bus to the nearest special school about 40 minutes away. I've been happy with his school & the staff there, but again you need to investigate the area you plan to move to & whether the schools have space. I know there is high demand in the bigger cities.

I do love the community and friendliness here. When I'm out & about with my boy people are kind & make adjustments to suit his needs. I've never (touch wood) experienced people being cross or judgemental about his behavior. We're often allowed to skip queues etc! I feel part of my local community and I've never felt excluded because of his disability.

Good luck in your decision xx

As pps have said you really need to do your research.

Housing is expensive. Great if your mum is buying you a house but if you're seeing houses much cheaper than where you are currently (assuming you're not in London) then do your research on the area. As is true of most towns and cities there are certain areas best seen through the rear windscreen .

Certainly housing outside the major cities will be cheaper but I'd say not necessarily cheap unless you're somewhere pretty remote (which obviously brings its own problems).

Bear in mind too that that better job opportunities will (for the most part) be in cities and that means commuting. Public transport isn't cheap. If living rurally then you'll likely need a car, particularly if your child's disabilities mean regular medical appointments.

I don't think the attitude towards people on benefits is the same as in the UK in the sense that it's not actual government policy to demonize the poor or disabled (though obviously there are people everywhere who believe everyone else is playing the system ). That said though, investment in services is certainly open to criticism and there can be long waiting lists for the public health system.

Schooling is not as "free" as it is in the UK and I don't think the back to school allowance (which you may or may not qualify for) goes very far. Everything the dc use in school has to be paid for. There's no free school meals, it's just not a thing here, you send them with a packed lunch. In very disadvantaged areas there may be a free breakfast club to ensure children get a breakfast but that's not everywhere.

Some might disagree but I think the cost of living here (Ireland) is higher. I have two lots of family in the UK and both have commented on the cost of grocery shopping, clothes shopping, entertainment, eating out etc saying they just couldn't afford to live here. I've definitely found it quite cheap visiting them (North east of England compared to Dublin).

Thanks N0tFinished. My dd also has ASD (high functioning Aspergers). She can’t cope with social situations at all which is why ultimately she left school. She was diagnosed 2.5 years ago and it was more a less a case of ‘yep you’ve got Aspergers, there used to be support services but they’ve been cut, on you go, enjoy your life!’. So not had any support here either. She’s doing a lot better since she left school in Feb, much happier in herself, and much less anxious now.

I have close family in Ireland and would say it’s generally less diverse and generally less tolerant than the uk as a whole. Of course there are variations within both countries but I do find Ireland a bit old fashioned when it comes to these things. Before anyone has a go at me I am a member of a minority and visit family in Ireland often (several times this year) so not like I am basing this on father ted.

But that’s obviously just one factor- overall I think it’s a great place! Disadvantages and advantages like anywhere.

I currently live in rural south west England which is about as un-diverse as it gets, so would probably be similar!

In contrast the primary and secondary schools my kids go to both have specialist autism units with fully trained teachers.

Just quickly googling disability services for Wexford and this is on the HSE website:

Local Health Office works with a range of voluntary services in the area to provide care, training and development for children and adults with learning or physical disability.

My family is fortunate enough not to have additional needs but I think here there is a lot being done by charities and voluntary groups because the funding needed isn't being provided . My friends child has a progressive disability and I know she and her ex have paid privately for a lot because otherwise the child could be waiting (and deteriorating) for appointments and treatment.

I don't mean to come across negative about Ireland, I'd prefer to live here than the UK but we're a family with a very comfortable income, living in Dublin with friends and family around and the means to get to them, access to good schools and amenities and no disabilities so obviously for us the good far outweighs the bad.

I'm just not sure I'd move anywhere knowing that I'd be dependent on the benefit system and have to start again in terms of accessing support for a disabled child.

Place marking...

A teacher in my school is Irish and moved to the UK 5 years ago. She is in a SEN role here and says that outside of Dublin SEN provision is very poor compared to UK. OP in your position your d d's future in terms of educational provision would be my greatest concern, so do your research thoroughly.