Moving to Ireland - lots of questions

[ThatchersCold]

I’ve massively got the fear about what is going to happen in the near future with Brexit in the U.K.

I have Irish heritage (grandparents) and so am going to apply for an Irish passport. My DM has had an Irish passport for about 20 years and she is putting her house on the market and is thinking about moving to Ireland. I am strongly considering moving there too, but am trying to work out if it would be feasible.

I don’t think my dc would be entitled to Irish passports as my DM was not born there, is that right? If so, what kind of rights would they have to live in Ireland, particularly when they become adults?

My eldest dd is disabled which impacts how much I can work, so I would need to claim benefits. I am self employed but don’t earn that much, so currently receive working tax credits, child tax credits, carers allowance, child benefit, housing benefit and my daughter gets DLA. I’ve no idea what my/her entitlement to welfare would be in Ireland. Because of my daughter’s disability I need to be sure I’d be able to make ends meet.

also any other information about the cost of living, healthcare, employment, schools etc would be useful. My DM is planning to move to somewhere around Wexford so would probably be that area. My dc are 8 and 14. I don’t know if this a bonkers idea or whether I could actually do it. Would be a scary thing to do as I actually really like my life here but I’m so worried about what the future holds here, particularly for the dc.

Tell me about primary schools you know with kitchens? Or ones with sports halls?
I live in a town with 5 schools, two are fully prefab structures, one has a sports hall, none have kitchens. Think that's fairly typical. Also, the rate with which ET schools in particular are being set up, in temporary structures with small numbers, means most new schools dont have any hope of these sort of facilities anytime in the future.
If you compare that to UK schools where free school meals are standard for the first couple of years, with fully provided stationary, schools in Ireland are a big shock to people moving here.
Obviously I'm talking about state schools, not private.

Sports halls? Most of them! My kids have been in 4 different schools all of which have large impressive halls. In my area we have several brand new schools with amazing facilities.
Kitchens well I don't see lack of those as a negative, school meals in the UK are bloody awful, so the lack of that is a good thing. Parents can send their own food in for lunch, which imo is the best way to do it.

Sure we have to buy their pens and books but OP sounds like she would qualify for the back to school allowance which gives 250€ per primary child and 400€ per secondary, which buys a lot of pens and the like.

I'm sick of Ireland being characterised as some backwards but expensive country. We come out much higher than the UK on all the international league tables on education, higher literacy and numeracy, higher levels of tertiary education, and higher student happiness scores. Why not mention that? Our children are better educated, despite the lack of kitchens serving slop at lunchtime.

To be fair though why would you even want a school with a kitchen? By all accounts a lot of the school meals in England are pretty shit, most schools here have healthy eating policies and unless you are in a very deprived area there is no need for hot meals in schools and if you are in a deprived area you would more than likely have breakfast/lunch clubs anyway. So no kitchens is hardly a hardship, prefabs are fast becoming a thing of the past and any school I know with no sports facilities generally have local access to clubs in the community so not like there are many with nothing.

School costs are an issue definitely but the Back to School Clothing and Footwear is pretty good if you qualify. Secondary school more so than primary is expensive but rarely as expensive as those surveys you read about in the media suggest.

Also both secondary schools close to us have fantastic facilities, both have halls, basketball courts, tennis court, gyms and one of them has a fully working farm! Schools have improved remarkably in recent years from what I can see

I'm Irish and live in Ireland after a spell in the UK and experience of schools in both countries,the teachers are paid better in Ireland but otherwise spending on education is way ahead in the UK. Not all UK meals are slop. Its hot and its provided everyday for free to early years; not in our wildest dreams would that happen in Ireland.
My child started in a prefab school. The only communal area where an assembly could gather was in the outdoor yard. Each classroom was accessed via its own outside door, like large caravans. It was awful so we moved to the only school with a hall in town.
They still eat lunch (which must be packed) at their desk. Theres no such thing as breakfast clubs, although I know a few city schools which do this in deprived areas.
Yes we must buy all school books (or pay to rent them) and buy all stationary, book bags, uniform etc. There's an allowance for social welfare recipients,you are right. The day is shorter then the UK too.
Despite the low expenditure and facilities, children do well in the education system. Teachers with experience are paid well and respected. There's less paperwork so the teachers day is shorter and great options for career breaks and maternity leave so must do tend to stick in that career and do well. This is reflected in the standard of education received. Time spent on religion indoctrination (in 84% of schools) and learning the Irish language means there is much less time spent on science or excursions as would be the norm in UK schools.
As a place to move to, I would not describe Ireland as a backward country which maybe is what came across in my post, but the primary education system has some stark differences. The figures for state benefits may sound good on paper but the recipient would need to account for packed lunches, all school supplies, transport, into that.

You can apply for a medical card to get free healthcare such as medication and visits. Your daughter would probably automatically get one if she's disabled, and has a pps number. You would be able to apply under EU entitlements, if you're not linked to the social security system here in Ireland you would get a medical card automatically. If you've worked in Ireland it would be means assessed.

So that's one thing at least. If you're going to be 'sorted' with housing then go for it. Ireland is quite nice in the big picture, I prefer it much more than the UK. People are nicer , it's smaller, much much less crime. Wexford is a nice area too.

Then again everything is more expensive. Especially food/drink/clothes/alcohol. Think about it if you get 3 beers for £6 in the Uk one of those beers cost 6.

It's not a case of wildest dreams though is it really? I don't want my kids fed shite in school, I am happy to provide them with breakfasts and dinners. School meals have never been a thing here, it's not something I think anyone would aspire to wanting so definitely not seen as a negative to not have it, imo anyway. Parents feed kids not schools, no harm in eating at your desk, generations have done it and certainly now I think kids have a better diet for it. All schools have healthy eating policies and most have the food dudes program for younger classes

Just to say there are at least 3 years waiting lists for Occupational Therapy and currently no mental health psychologist for children in Wexford. This possibly doesn't apply to your daughter but I would check any extra care she may need is available before moving. You can find health centres under the HSE website.

I think some people base their 'knowledge' of Ireland on Father Ted !!

I am a primary teacher. Primary education is great here, very few pay for private education at primary level as it is not monitored by the Department of Education.

I teach in a brand new school with excellent facilities. My children attend similar schools. I am glad we don't have school meals as I give my kids a large pot of chopped , fresh fruit, water and a roll. Treats are not allowed / discouraged in schools here. I would not like my kids having a 'pudding' every day in school..

We live in Dublin and I think that you need a very good income to live here. Everything is very expensive . I would say not quite as expensive as London though.

I love the fact that if I ring my GP he will see us today, regardless of what it is.

Weather is nice here, I like it very much. Not that different to the UK.

I am from Wexford, OP. It is nice, some lovely beaches. However, in Ireland life is very focused on the major cities so you may have to travel for jobs, certain healthcare treatments etc.

Even as a UK or EU citizen you have to meet the habitual residence test to qualify for a social welfare payment in Ireland.

No, residence in the common travel area is treated as habitual residence. If you have lived for the last 2 years in the UK, you are treated as habitually resident in Ireland (and vice versa for the UK). EU citizens are subject to different rules.

" Even as a UK or EU citizen you have to meet the habitual residence test to qualify for a social welfare payment in Ireland."

well that is not true. As a Brit I can claim welfare straight away, same as an Irish person can in the UK.

Whatever about money etc consider the cultural change too. I'm from Ireland and live in the UK and they're pretty different. IME people from the UK find the transition from the UK to Ireland harder than vice versa- my English PILs lived in Ireland for 12 years and hated every minute and an English friend of mine who has lived there about 6 years is desperate to move back to the UK. One English friend of mine loved Ireland but his family hated it and couldn't wait to leave.

It's a very different country - the effect of moving from a country of 65 million to only 5 million is on its own a big thing. The English people I know have found it very hard to make friends - I don't think that's because Irish people are unfriendly, I think it's more because people tend not to move around as much as they do in the UK so they are often close to family/long-established friends so it's harder to 'break in' to established circles.

I think the education system in Ireland is much better than it is in the UK and definitely where I'm from (Cork) the provision for children with disabilities is amazing - streets ahead of anything I've seen in the UK. So there are positives. Just bear in mind that you'll be dealing with a very different way of life.

Also, I am not being 'funny' but a lot of Irish people really don't like the English.
yes that is you with the Irish name and Irish parents. English accent = English.
I have no intention of being offensive, but it is something to consider.

Bizarre that Irish parents think English kids are fed “shit” at school. A typical example of my ds school dinner (and I eat it too as I work there), would be roast chicken with roast potatoes peas carrots and gravy, followed by fruit and yogurt, or sometimes a hot pudding like crumble and custard. One of his favourite dinners is the lamb curry (they all love that one!) And I’m glad he eats at a dining table in a dining hall with his friends.

Hardly shit is it? Oh and yes we have healthy eating policies too. And sandwiches aren’t necessarily healthy. For me the thought of ds sitting at his desk eating a miserable sandwich on a freezing cold day is depressing.

To answer some of your questions OP - if your eldest is 14, they'll be moving in secondary to a totally different system. The best way to do it would be to move him/her for transition year. Second level in Ireland is divided into two exam cycles, Junior Cert and Leaving Cert, which v roughly would map onto GCSEs but Junior Cert is taken a year earlier and basically not seen to count for anything- ie in the way GCSEs are used to show a minimum standard, the Junior Cert is more or less seen as a practice run for doing state exams. It would always have been v unusual for people to leave school after Junior Cert and now would not be legal. The Leaving Cert is a much broader exam, with most students taking around 8 subjects, obviously not in quite as much depth as A levels, and it is required to take certain ones - I think with most schools it is one European language, Irish, English, and Maths. You can get an Irish language exemption if you are a certain age when you move, from memory it used to be 11 so not sure if your youngest would be exempt, but something to look into.

I moved back to Ireland after years in the UK and it is a lot more difficult to get information, but if you plan to continue to be self-employed you won't be eligible for the benefits mentioned so you would really need to get a job. Your day-to-day costs will depend a lot on how you live: running a car I think is definitely more expensive in Ireland, which wasn't an issue for us, but would be pretty much essential living in Wexford. Rent /housing is v high, I find utilities (gas, electric, etc) to be v high. There is no council tax, but if you own your house there is property tax which is currently lower than most council tax but that may change.

You will have to pay for school books, or potentially to rent them but a minority of schools offer that. Branded school uniforms are the norm and often v expensive. Disability and health services seem to vary hugely based on the experience of friends and family: I think things in general are more standardised and clear in the UK.

For your eldest, you would need to check out how long they would have to be in Ireland before counting as resident for university, loans, grants, etc. Ireland doesn't have a student loan system like the UK: there is a strong expectation parents will contribute significantly and so even if he is eligible for the grant it is v unlikely to cover all costs.

That's just a few things to consider, I'm sure others will have more practical tips.

Re food in school, why is there a need for a dessert in the middle of the day? Surely a portion of fresh fruit would be better?

I think of dessert as a once a week treat and certainly would not want my kids having it every school day.

I do see the appeal of maybe a nice warm curry or likewise at lunch.

I've never lived in Ireland but have visited many times over many years. The biggest difference imo is the lack of diversity in the population. It has changed a bit but it's still not what I would call diverse.

'lack of diversity' ffs have you even been in Dublin recently?

Yes I have.

and was it not a 'diverse' enough backdrop for you?

No it wasn't compared to what I'm used to. If it's not a consideration for others then that's fine for them.

Also, I am not being 'funny' but a lot of Irish people really don't like the English.
yes that is you with the Irish name and Irish parents. English accent = English.
That sort of prejudice is definitely something to consider before making the move op.

Bizarre that Irish parents think English kids are fed “shit” at school

Yeah cos its not like there have been massive campaigns about how shit it is, all over the media and TV. Will we ask Jamie Oliver how great school meals are?

Also, I am not being 'funny' but a lot of Irish people really don't like the English.that is you with the Irish name and Irish parents. English accent = English

Oh get away withyou, that hasn't been the case for decades. There are more english people here than you can shake a stick at. And as for the "lack of diversity", I live in a small village in the back arse of nowhere and we have so many different nationalities represented at school I couldn't even count. We have kids with backgrounds from China, India, Pakistan, all over Africa, the middle east, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Russia, Turkey, I could go on and on.

OP don't bother listening to people who have no idea what modern Ireland is actually like (and sadly that seems to even include some people who live their, perhaps in some BGB time bubble!). Ireland is a very modern 21st century country with way more opportunities and a much better way of life than the UK. No Brexit nonsense here, no austerity any more, no Tories. So much the better place to live.