How Can We Save the NHS ?

[LuluJakey1]

Just that. I am interested- having been discussing this with DH, SIL and BIL tonight (we get a bit wild here on Saturday nights)- in what your thought are on how we save and protect our wonderful NHS so it remains 'free at the point of delivery' to all citizens and continues to provide high quality, cutting edge health care as well as more mundane but very necessary healthcare.
This is what we came up with as ideas on the basis that it will inevitably cost us all more and should if we want to protect it. We (DH and I) do, we don't want to see it privatised and us all having to have health insurance and ending up like America.

1. Remove some common items which can be bought cheaper at the chemist without a prescription from being available on prescription eg calpol, paracetemol, asprin, E45 and various creams etc. There would be a list.
2. Every person over the age of 18 to pay a yearly one off NHS flat rate charge of £200. No exceptions. Deducted at sources - wages or benefits or pension. Anyone under 18 to pay £100 (parental responsinility to 18)

On the basis of some stats we found from the National Data Office online, there are 15.6 million under the age of 18 and 52 million over the age of 18 . If we work those figures that would raise almost £12000million every year. OR We all pay an NHS monthly contribution based on our family size and income eg 1% of salary per family member and 2% for any family with an income of more than 100,000 but everyone pays, no exceptions. OR We pay £10 for each visit to a GP and £100 for each hospital stay, flat rate, prescriptions on top.

1. No one working in an NHS hospital or as a GP should earn more than £150,000 a year - this is to stop the ridiculous salaries of NHS Trust Executives.
2. Deals must be done with drugs companies so the NHS is not ripped off by them charging extremely high prices for life saving medication.

5 Plastic surgery, vasectomy, sterelisation, breast enhancement (apart from following cancer) , breast reduction (apart from in cases where it affects health) in fact any surgery done for cosmetic purposes or want rather than a health necessity should not be available on the NHS.

1. Smokers and alcoholics and drug addicts should not be treated for illnesses related to their addictions.
2. Anyone who calls out an ambulance for unnecessary reasons should be charged for that ambulance or at least fined.
3. Drunks should not be treated in A and E.
4. Drunks should not be picked up by ambulances.

Now I know these are provocative. We did not all agree on them but they were suggestions. They were not instead of National Insurance- that would continue.

Interested in your ideas .

OP asked us to come up with other ideas I did and it got ignored. I suspect the reason for that is because i wasnt patient blaming.

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HelenaDove Sun 19-Aug-18 02:00:26

10. Tackle poor housing. Both privately rented and socially rented.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jul/06/depressed-poor-housing-costs-nhs-14bn-year

"Helena K. I won't say it and that means it isn't true. Shall we just pretend then? Let's pretend that in our society we should only pay for ourselves. We should only pay taxes based on what we use and we have no responsibility to look after the needs of those people who can't do that- that will include the poor, the sick, the elderly, the disabled. Let them look after themselves."

Thats what ive been saying in previous posts Why are you trying to make out that ive been saying the opposite.

7. Anyone who calls out an ambulance for unnecessary reasons should be charged for that ambulance or at least fined.

Example - if someone thinks they're having a heart attack and wind up having indigestion they should be fined? I'd find that a bit brutal. The phone operators are supposed to ascertain if someone has genuine need for an ambulance, they don't go out for every call. Also bear in ind that in some cases paramedics have told someone they don't need an ambulance and left, only for that person to end up dying. Going by clause 7, the person's family might get a bill in the post for a wasted ambulance while they're looking for an undertaker. It's not a simple issue.

I was quite hoping for a good read but stopped reading the OP pretty fast. I am an NHS employee and the OP pretty much sums up why I find it hard to muster the energy to give my own views on this kind of thing. The stop paying senior NHS people lots of money one, I mean, honestly people work very hard in the NHS and there are not that many who get anywhere near that figure! You are talking CEOs for that level and nobody wants the job usually, because it's not worth the stress. That feels such an ill placed view. I expect I would be labelled a pen pusher for what I do, but trust me I am vastly underpaid for what I do in the NHS and I do it because I believe in it and want to feel like I make a difference.

Charging at the point of use isn't the answer (look at how dentistry has gone, does everyone you know willingly go to the dentist? I never did until the last couple of years, didn't feel it was worth the cost on low wages), and nor is discriminating against certain groups based on whether you deem their troubles to be NHS worthy or not.

If you really want to save the NHS start by educating your children. Teach them how to be healthy. What resources and help is available to them. When to go to a pharmacist versus a GP, where the local walk in centre is and what is/isn't appropriate for A&E. If we as a nation took more responsibility for our own health that would ease the burden, and the government could do with shoving a bigger proportion of GDP into health than they already do, or else restrict what healthcare is available across the board in the fairest way possible.

We need to attract more talent in the NHS and feeling like you are public property and often beaten with a stick does not help matters. We have some great people but we make some crappy, short sighted decisions, not helped by the fact we have no idea what our situation will be lost each new election.

My first gallstone attack was mistaken for a heart attack, And i did get a few trips to hospital in an ambulance due to subsequent attacks while waiting for the operation to remove my gallbladder.

It was caused by losing weight (i was told this by doctors before anyone starts) i went on to lose ten stone altogether.

Who anyone who wants to make me and fellow NHS managers redundant, here is some context:

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/health-and-social-care-bill/mythbusters/nhs-managers

We need to tackle poverty

The food bank diet is not a healthy diet

It does not include fresh food.

As UC eventually gets rolled out to 3 million families this will be replicated thousands of times.

Hospitals shouldn’t provide free meals to inpatients. You would be paying for your food if you were at home. You pay for hospital meals too.

I know the original idea of the NHS was free at the point of service, but maybe it’s time to change that.

You have to pay for healthcare in pretty much any other country on the planet.

RedneckStumpy I am sure you do.

The sooner "our" NHS is scrapped and replaced with a German-style insurance based, health care system that actually delivers, the better. Fat chance though......

missmouse that would disproprtionately affect those who have disabilities.

You do realize that disability benefits are stopped after a certain length of time in hospital.

This would lead to people discharging themselves early................oh wait thats obviously the modus operandi.

missmouse Patients are not at home though are they

vote for a party that will raise taxes. 70 million in this country, infrastructure for 20 million fewer.

and yes, fewer management consultants, and more medical consultants.

three strikes and then £100 fine for Saturday drunks .three strikes and £50 fine for appointments missed without cancelling. no pay no future treat in both cases. we have got to make binge drinking unacceptable not an 'mn good night out'.

Charging for food would probably cost more in admin costs that how much money they would realistically be able to collect.

Charging for food would probably cost more in admin costs that how much money they would realistically be able to collect.

Other countries they just don’t serve food, it’s up to visiting family members to bring food.

Re the UK though.....Would that be the same family members who have moved out of the area because according to a lot of ppl on MN they dont have a right to live there just because they were born and grew up there if they cant afford it.

Or have got on their bikes to look for work found that work and moved there accordingly?

here we go with the race to the bottom.

*I know the original idea of the NHS was free at the point of service, but maybe it's time to change that.
You have to pay for healthcare in pretty much any other country on the planet.
*
"Free at the point of use" does not mean "free". We do pay for the NHS. We all have healthcare insurance...it's called National Insurance.

The idea that we have "free" healthcare in this country is ridiculous. We don't have "free" anything.

The NHS is something we should all be inordinately proud of....it says a great deal about us as a society, that we do actually give a shit about each other and we do regard health as so important that the richest & the poorest get equal treatment. The ONLY way to ensure this is to have all services free "at the point of use". In other words, nobody has to show up with their cheque book for treatment.

It would be devastating to dismantle this & our country would be poorer for it if we did.

The NHS is struggling because we are not paying enough NI contributions. Science & medicine have advanced so massively in the last few decades...treatments are becoming more complex & more expensive and that's not going to change.

Problem is, when this is made clear people start complaining about having to pay for other people to have treatment...which we're, in fact, already doing.

I remember some American saying (about Obamacare) "Why should I pay for my neighbour to get his bunions fixed?" The answer didn't occur to the self-centred twat....because he'll pay for your chemotherapy & life saving operations if/when you need them.

Doctors & nurses are underpaid & over worked. We need to pay them more. We need to
Iisten when medical students talk about what a struggle it is & make it easier for them so that people actually want to be medical practioners in the first place - thereby having more doctors and placing less stress on those we do have.

But it all boils down to money. They need more and we need to pay it.

If you removed my emollient it would cost me nearly £1000 a year to buy it myself. That is 1/17th of my wage. Is eczema not an equally valid health concern?

I'd happily pay more for my annual prescription and an annual NHS fee though

Lemony It is really difficult. I said earlier up the thread, I have awful eyesight, really awful, exacerbated by an accident I can not wear contact lenses it is so bad, nor have laser eye surgery because of my eye condition. Ordinary lens replacement surgery would not tackle it. Literally can not see anything 3 inches in front of my face. There is a particular type of lens replacement surgery that I could have but it is not available on the NHS and is only done at Moorfields in London, by two surgeons, privately. It costs £20,000. If I want it I have to pay. It is how it is. I get it. I feel it is unfair as I have, thankfully, cost the NHS very little, but there are other priorities.
What would your emollient coast not on an NHS prescription? Many drugs are cheaper over the counter if they are available.

Banano Thing is, not everyone agrees anymore about the NHS. Many people have said here they would rather pay insurance for their health care- I think most have no idea what that would cost and the implications of it for the population and the system.

When the NHS was set up, like the Welfare State, it was never designed to cope with or envisiged that it would cope with what it does today. Medicine has changed, our expectations of the NHS/Welfare State/ our rights to care have changed. The structure of society has changed.

If it is going to continue, it has to change and what we contribute has to change significantly,

Many people have said they would rather pay insurance for their healthcare.

Everyone is already paying insurance for their healthcare.

That's why it's called National Insurance.

The amount we pay in contributions (our premiums) is not enough. It's that simple.

(Have literally no idea why the second half of your post to me is you repeating back what I said to you ).

Helena I give up! I am not communicating clearly with you. I actually agree with a lot if what you say and keep trying to explain that but don't seem able to make myself clear. I am not victim blaming at all but nor am I prepared to not say the things many people think or to not draw attention to facts.
We should not be scared to say that those who can have to pay more to cover those who can't pay. You imply by saying that I am blaming the poor and drawing the attention of the better off to that fact. I am not. It is the truth and we should not hide from it. It should be a basic value in our society. The fact that it isn't and that the highly paid amongst us often get annoyed by having to pay more, does not mean we should not say it. It is like pretending if we don't say it they might not notice. Let's have it out there and challenge the prejudice that accompanies greed. What I see is that once people start becoming better off they think they are different to those who are finding life hard. It is usually not the case. They forget that it is only a set of circumstances that keep them from that position. A serious illness, a job lost, a mortgage that can't be paid and they could find themselves in that position.

Anyway, I am not arguing with you or trying to explain myself again. I totally take your point about better housing but my comment is the same. It is more money needed in the coffers which means we have to accept that some of us will have to pay more- there is no other way.

Banana Yes, I agree, but individual health insurance and NI contributions are totally different and what a number of people have said is it is time we changed to an individual health insurance system- where you pay insurance for yourself only and to cover your own treatment.
As I said yesterday ' The point of National Insurance was, you paid it over your lifetime at a percentage of your income and when you were ill or of pensionable age, the NHS or your OAP was there for you. You probably didn't access the NHS when you were younger so you paid for those who were accessing it, but when you were older or ill, it was your turn.'

With what is being suggested, the people who need it and can't pay, will not have a high quality NHS system to support them because the funds will be going to insurance companies and private providers to cover the individual who pays, and not into a common pot. And I'd bet my bottom dollar that at that point, the people who can pay for insurance will not want to pay additionally for an NHS provision when they don't access it.