How Can We Save the NHS ?

[LuluJakey1]

Just that. I am interested- having been discussing this with DH, SIL and BIL tonight (we get a bit wild here on Saturday nights)- in what your thought are on how we save and protect our wonderful NHS so it remains 'free at the point of delivery' to all citizens and continues to provide high quality, cutting edge health care as well as more mundane but very necessary healthcare.
This is what we came up with as ideas on the basis that it will inevitably cost us all more and should if we want to protect it. We (DH and I) do, we don't want to see it privatised and us all having to have health insurance and ending up like America.

1. Remove some common items which can be bought cheaper at the chemist without a prescription from being available on prescription eg calpol, paracetemol, asprin, E45 and various creams etc. There would be a list.
2. Every person over the age of 18 to pay a yearly one off NHS flat rate charge of £200. No exceptions. Deducted at sources - wages or benefits or pension. Anyone under 18 to pay £100 (parental responsinility to 18)

On the basis of some stats we found from the National Data Office online, there are 15.6 million under the age of 18 and 52 million over the age of 18 . If we work those figures that would raise almost £12000million every year. OR We all pay an NHS monthly contribution based on our family size and income eg 1% of salary per family member and 2% for any family with an income of more than 100,000 but everyone pays, no exceptions. OR We pay £10 for each visit to a GP and £100 for each hospital stay, flat rate, prescriptions on top.

1. No one working in an NHS hospital or as a GP should earn more than £150,000 a year - this is to stop the ridiculous salaries of NHS Trust Executives.
2. Deals must be done with drugs companies so the NHS is not ripped off by them charging extremely high prices for life saving medication.

5 Plastic surgery, vasectomy, sterelisation, breast enhancement (apart from following cancer) , breast reduction (apart from in cases where it affects health) in fact any surgery done for cosmetic purposes or want rather than a health necessity should not be available on the NHS.

1. Smokers and alcoholics and drug addicts should not be treated for illnesses related to their addictions.
2. Anyone who calls out an ambulance for unnecessary reasons should be charged for that ambulance or at least fined.
3. Drunks should not be treated in A and E.
4. Drunks should not be picked up by ambulances.

Now I know these are provocative. We did not all agree on them but they were suggestions. They were not instead of National Insurance- that would continue.

Interested in your ideas .

Just voting Labour, as I keep saying, will not resolve the problem

It won't resolve the problem in the short term but it's a start. It's a chance to close tax loopholes and commit to future funding to get us at least heading in the right direction.

The government have an (arguably) independent body to determine MP salaries, so why not the same principle for NHS funding? I'm talking about the determination of what funding reaches the DHSC, not how it is then allocated down the chain (although that needs looking at too).

It doesn’t need to be run by politicians at all ScrambledMeg. In my opinion it should be removed from their control entirely.

It should be run by a cross party group sonit can't be used to score political points. Unfortunately Labour just won't agree to this depite the Tories asking them.

The group would be nothing more than a showpiece. When did *unt ever listen to anything that didn't suit his own rhetoric? Hancock is no better.

Look at the Work and Pensions Committee as an example. Time and time again they have raised concerns with Universal Credit and the treatment of claimants, and every time their legitimate, evidence based concerns have been ignored.

And no one seems to agree with each other about what would make a difference.
No point in people getting angry and shouty here about their personal circumstances. This is not about individuals. It is a deliberately provocative discussion about a system. The problem in discussing public services is we are the individual users so take any change personally.We have to be able to discuss it and discuss the unpalatable possibilities that lie ahead because they are coming.
The truth is if we have any kind of insurance system and you are already ill, your insurance will cost you a lot more that a younger or healthier person because you will cost the insurance company more.
That was kind of the point of National Insurance- you paid it over your lifetime at a percentage of your income and when you were ill or of pensionable age, the NHS or your OAP was there for you. You probably didn't access the NHS when you were younger so you paid for those who were accessing it, but when you were older or ill, it was your turn.

It doesn't work like that anymore. We can't afford it unless we put more money in. We have been too generous about some things. I think free prescriptions should start at pension age, not at 60. Most people work much longer than 60. Certainly I think people in Wales, Norther Ireland and Scotland should pay for prescriptions- why should everyone there get free prescriptions?

But that's a drop in the ocean of what the NHS requires to keep it afloat.

So much focus here on the patient side and treatment.
The admin/ management/ procurement side needs a complete overhaul. Money wasted, ridiculous salaries/ pensions/ holiday entitlement levels that would be completely unsupportable in the private sector.
If we all “just paid a little more tax” I have absolutely zero faith that it wouldn’t just fall into the same black hole.

No one wants to work in it now beebee, see my comment above about 40,000 nurse and 10,000 medic vacancies. Further chipping away at what’s left of their t&cs is hardly going to help that. Fool.

Why aren't babies checked for blood type ? My husband is a rare type but I am common so what are my children ? I have no idea but if either was rare I would really encourage them to donate. In my family I have two rare type siblings but I didn't find out until I was 25 years old what I was.

I can't be bothered RTFT because it always descends into 'if we don't protect the NHS we'll end up like America' which is crap. There IS an inbetween.

In Australia, for example, if you earn below a certain salary you get a medical card which allows you to receive free doctor, hospital and education.

Most people pay for Dr appointment and claim around half back so you fork out $65 you'll get $32 back and there are Dr surgeries who bulk bill meaning they charge the government and not you (usually a training surgery or in high density areas).

The NHS as it is meant to be is amazing, but reality is very different and it's going to die if something isn't changed.

Echo2 My mum lived her last years with very complex health needs - failing heart valve, COPD, chronic kidney disease and macular degeneration. She lived every minute of her time and lived life and was extremely well looked after by her consultant and lovely nursing staff.
What struck me was:
a) Even though they knew what was wrong with her and whete she needed to be, every hospital admission was through A and E, a Medical Assessment Ward and involved waits of always 24-36rs with her being moved from trolley to temporary bed on a temporary ward until they moved her to the specialist ward. They insisted on doing the same tests every time which the specialist ward always repeated when she finally reached them. Waste of A and E time and resources, MAS unit time and resources and meanwhile my poor mum was not whete hse should be with the Dr who knew her inside out.
b) When we were to,d she had a year to live and she needed support at home 4x a day, the social care system (which had had to be put out to tender by the council and was provided by the most dire private company) was appalling, unbelieveable. I made a formal complaint, which ended up with an ombudsman who found in our favour on every single point. The Head of Adult Social Care at the council asked me to speak about my mum's experience of their provision at a council meeting he was in such despair. My mum had me to help her and speak up for her. I dread to think what happens to the elderly people who are completely alone and frail. The council provided the care for the first 4 days when she returned from hospital and it was wonderful but because she needed long term care it had to go through this company and I would not let them look after my cat for a day, never mind my mum for a year- which was exactly how long she lived.
Their staff were paid appallingly, treated really shoddily, there was a huge turnover of staff, no one ever checked their work or supported them. There was no continuity, no consistency, they were poorly skilled. My mum blind, deaf, frail and elderly would have 4 different people let themselves into her flat every day, people who were complete strangers to her who had never been thete before, people who spoke no English, men who she was expected to allow to perform really intimate care. She was left sitting without meals. It was unbelieveable. All to save money - yet the owners of the company live in a large house in its own grounds and both drive Mercedes so are clearly making good profit from funding that should be spent on high quality care. It was terrible.

I don't think NHS can possibly survive - it was never designed to run at the capacity that it now is, and is a monster out of control.

I personally think we need a scheme whereby you contribute a %age of your salary, and only those in true genuine need get reduced/free care providing they take responsibility for their health.

Alcohol should be sold with a levy that directly contributes to the healthcare that the users will inevitably need. Same with junk food.

The whole offensively overpaid management scheme needs to stop, as does paying billions to drug companies and anyone making profit out of supplying the NHS.

I also think the main issue is our expectations of the system ie I want treatment, and I want it now. I came out of healthcare and take my hat off to anyone working in it. We all need to take responsibility for what constitutes an emergency and what can wait.

Agree with points 1,3 and 4. But not the rest...

The US system isn’t as bad as British people think,

We pay the equivalent of £125 a month per person in the household for health insurance.

Our insurance excess is about £6000 per person per year. However DH’s company will pay £4000 of that for us.

Therefore my pregnancy will cost us £2000

We all pay an NHS monthly contribution based on our family size and income eg 1% of salary per family member and 2% for any family with an income of more than 100,000 but everyone pays, no exceptions.

Why? Do families with an income over 100,000 tend to have more illnesses?

ChardonnaysPrettySister

Because if you are a high earner you should support everyone else as it’s your moral duty, according to the socialists.

If anything someone on a high income is more likely to have health insurance so they costs the NHS less and already pay more for it.

But never mind.

I agree Chardonnay, and besides those earning over £100k are already paying more through tax on their earnings.

My maths could be wrong but isn’t 2% of 100,000 2,000, so over 60 years that’s 120,000 for a whole family? That s the cost of one major op roughly.
So it needs to be 20% so 1,200,000. Still probably not enough for a family of 4 if you include care Home fees.

ChardonnaysPrettySister

I agree also, hence why in my first post I said there should be the ability to opt out on the NHS, with an associated tax reduction

I don't think opting out is a wise option though, you need the NHS for emergency treatment.

In my case, if I had to pay thousands extra them I would have to cancel my health insurance and will end up costing the NHS a lot more.

Cosmetic surgery isn’t currently available on the NHS
It is if you can convince them it’s causing you pain or discomfort. I know someone who got a tummy tuck because she said it was constantly irritated in the fold under her saggy tummy. And someone who got skin tags removed because they stuck up and he said he kept catching them and making them sore. That’s before we even mention the non medically necessary operations that some people get for mental and emotional issues even though they’re physically healthy.

ChardonnaysPrettySister

Maybe a tier approach where you can opt out of care and just have emergency cover? Each with different tax bands

Maybe there could be more flexibility on the options.

It is really interesting to see what people think is acceptable.
Not acceptable to tax higher earners more.
Not acceptable to withdraw free treatment drug addicts and alcoholics who keep doing it- only for drug/alcohol related illnesses
NHS managers should be fewer in number and paid less. No they should be paid more.
Yes, we should all pay a flat rate contribution per person. No we shouldn't.

I love the comment from Redneck 'The US system isn’t as bad as British people think. We pay the equivalent of £125 a month per person in the household for health insurance.Our insurance excess is about £6000 per person per year. However DH’s company will pay £4000 of that for us. Therefore my pregnancy will cost us £2000'

What do we think of that - £500 a month insurance for a family of 4 plus a £6000 excess per person which if you are employed your employer might pay in which case each pregnancy will cost £2000? If not it will cost £6000 plus the 9 x £125 monthly premium, so about £7200.

Yes something along those lines

The NHS has been chasing money for years within a few years it needed to charge for prescriptions the future costs were inconceivable as medical science has changed so much plus that we are living longer

We hold on so dearly to the NHS but we can’t any longer Labour will come in to power at one point it might improve but then huge debts will no doubt be hidden for future generations to pay

We have to have sown form of paying along the lines of insurance we can keep some treatments free at point of service or we all pay a lot more

Most people will agree to paying 1p more that is better that nothing it needs to be more and it won’t be just 1p or 3p this will impact other areas that will increase their costs to get back tax increases